Algeria: May 8th 1945

[Al-khiyal]

Today, Europe is celebrating the anniversary of one of the most important events of the 20th century, their defeat of the Nazis on May 8 1945 signaling the end of World War II.

Contrary to the excitement of victory won 61 years ago, France is facing the serious allegation of conducting a massacre. While, on 8 May 1945 Europe was able to breathe a sigh of relief, Algeria mourned as it continued to remain under French colonization. Algerians fought along side the French in the fight against the German Nazis together in hopes of gaining their freedom, however, their dreams were dashed when they returned to home after the war to find French soldiers murdering Algerian survivors.

Algerians have been commemorating May 8 for years and call for "the acceptance of genocide and an apology" from France. France, in pursuit of version of history, continues to say, "Let’s leave the past to the historians," in response to these calls. The Paris administration, which made the Armenians' genocide allegations into a law in 2001, is attempting to go one step further and introduce a law to punish those who deny the genocide. The discussions to start in French Parliament on May 18 will be conducted under the shadow of the Algerian massacre.

Zaman went to Algeria on the 61st anniversary of the massacre and spoke to witnesses of the event and to local historians. Witnesses to this event are now in their 90s, however, they remember how the French colonial administration incinerated thousands of Algerians in lime ovens and dumped their bodies into the rivers. Despite the calls for apology, France passed a law praising colonialism last year, further infuriating the Algerians. The opposition al-Islah Party in Algeria has taken new steps taken in a reaction to Paris's attitude, by submitting to parliament a proposed law condemning French colonialism and considering it a crime. Al-Islah Party Secretary-General Dr .Mohammed Djahid Younsi, speaking to Zaman, stressed that colonizing countries must apologize and pay compensation to people they colonized. France is double-dealing, according to the general manager of the French newspaper published by French Courrier d'Algerie, Ahmet Toumiat.

Algerian historian Professor Mohammed El-Corso speaks out against the understanding of justice in France: "It is a double standard that France replies, 'Let’s leave the past to the historians,' to the calls by Algerians, while passing a law for the Armenians. There is such an odd understanding of justice in France. It is as though some things have become the property of France."

Algeria sent its young men to fight for France’s freedom against the Nazi occupation in Europe; in return it was promised independence. The Algerian people believed they would be freed as soon as France was released from the grip of Nazi occupation, and the fall of Germany was welcomed with a festival atmosphere in Algeria. Algerians organized marches on May 8 to celebrate their victory and to remember the promise given to them. The demonstrations held in the cities of Setif, Guelma and Kherrata in the east of the country turned bloody when 40-45,000 Algerians, according to Algeria and the United States, and 20,000, according to France, were murdered within a week.

Hamla was 19 in 1945 and one of the organizers of the march in Guelma. "We wanted to celebrate the victory and remind the Americans, British and Russian people their promise of independence," says Hamla, clearly remembering those days. Hamla welcomed us into his modest home in an Algerian suburb, and he said they flew the Algerian People's Party flag along side French, British, American and Russian flags during the march, and shouted slogans of freedom. Hamla says they confronted the French Gendarmerie Units waiting for them and violence broke out when the gendarme began shooting at civilians.

A state of emergency was declared and the French army began to massacre local Algerians. "We were gullible then and we did not think the French would kill us. They betrayed us and the other allies forgot their promises also," says a mournful Hamla, remembering that French soldiers killed ten of thousands of Algerians. While some of the bodies were buried in mass graves outside the city, some of them were burned in furnaces so not to distress the French governor with the smell of rotting corpses, which Ben Hamla likened to the Nazi "death chambers." The lime furnaces outside Guelma were turned into death furnaces, where thousands of Algerians were brought to die, their bodies were completely incinerated. We smelt the burning corpses", Hamla added.

Said, who withheld his surname, was 17 at that time he joined the march in Setif, and he says murdered Algerians were carried in trucks to Kherrata River and then dumped. "They threw even some living people into the trucks", says the old Algerian remembering those days, adding that France is still his "enemy." Said says they stoned the French soldiers that started firing at them and tried to lower the Algerian flag. "They killed anybody they saw in the streets, and they raped our women. They even stabbed a pregnant woman in the stomach. I saw all these events", says Said, remembering that French soldiers confiscated guns and sharp tools from the organizers of the marches to prevent any incidents of violence.

Amar Aliat, 98, whom we came across wearing traditional clothes and wandering on the road where the march took place in Setif, is a war veteran that fought for French independence in 1939. Ali said they were made to wear French military uniforms and he remembers listening to a speech made by French commanders telling Algerian soldiers that Algeria would gain independence if it defeated the Nazis. Ali says all the shops were closed, and the all streets were empty when they returned to Setif. General Duval, known as the "Setif Butcher," in command of the French army executing the massacres, told the French in Algeria, "We established peace in ten years. If France does not do anything now, then a similar difficult situation could happen again and next time it may be unsolvable." Just as the salvation movement started in 1954 brought independence to Algeria. Algeria was a French colony for 130 years before gaining independence in 1962.

>>>>>Source<<<<<

[ElHenni]

Animals!....................................

[Bernaoui]

Animals!....................................

Please don't insult animals. I agree the French military committed atrocities in 1945 and should apologize if relations between Algeria and France are to improve.

Having said that, Algerians themselves are not angels. How many atrocities have been committed by Algerians on Algerians since 1992? 200 000? The figure beggars belief. And yet the barbaric murderers be they islamists or military people have not even been asked to apologize to the victims' relatives. If anything, they have been rewarded by Bouteflika.

I say let's not adopt a double standard approach.......

[ElHenni]

There are no double standards here, our families all suffered the pure terror of the 90's but they also suffered the attrocities of the French for 130 years.

They are seperate issues, one doesnt directly effect the other.

People try to do there best but you cant change who you live with, the French however we dont live with, they want to do business with us, they want to purchase gas and oil from us, they want to export electronics and cars to us, we dont need them because there are 100 other countries who would scoop up our oil, our gas and who would sell us anything we wanted for at least the same price as France, therefore if France wants the privilage of dealing with us then they must give us the respect we deserve.

We cant say that because no ground has been covered in the fight for the truth of the 90's attrocities we should forget about what the French did.

I say that us not demanding serious economic subsidies from them and advanced technology for free is lucky on their part because that they owe us at least. All we, THE ALGERIANS, want is recognition of what happened and an appology, the fact that currect and past French governments deny what happened and are too arrogant to appologise really does illustrate how pathetic and ignorant they are.

You were right about the animals statement, I have come across dogs with more humanity than SOME VERY FEW French idiots who unfortunately are vested with supreme authority and ignorance.

[Al-khiyal]

Algeria's new agency noted that The 4th international seminar on May,8, 1945 massacres continued yesterday in Guelma with the participation of Algerian and French historians.

Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika's address was read by Moujahideen Minister Mohamed Cherif Abbas, and said in part "Commemorating 8 May 1945 today is first and foremost a response to a duty to tell the truth which goes beyond and must be the basis for the simple duty of memory... May, 8, 1945 'events' and the horrible repression that followed must be fathomed out not like unfortunate accidents, but in their cruel and relentless necessity... Of course, we should not forget the common graves of May 1945, nor the lime kilns of Heliopolis, not even the air raids and navy bombardments, nor the summary executions, rapes, all these mass murders which threw the areas of Setif, Guelma, Kherrata... into an apocalyptic atmosphere."

A WikiPedia description of the Setif killings says "the massacre was an attack on Algerian protesters by colonial French soldiers on May 8, 1945, the same day that Germany surrendered in World War II. Anti-French sentiment had been building across Algeria for months, leading to thousand-person protests in such cities as Mostaganem in the previous weeks. With the end of the European war, fifteen thousand protesters took to the streets of Setif, a town in northern Algeria, to press new demands for independence on the colonial government. The French Army responded with overwhelming force. At around 9 AM on May 8, a crowd chanting "Vive l'independence!" marched on the French forces after the French forces had shot at the flag-carriers, angry to see a flag other than the French flag in the then French colony. French commander General Duval gave the order to fire on the largely unarmed crowds, using machine guns, killing thousands. Saal Bouzid, a young boy carrying the Algerian flag, was among the first to fall, making him an instant martyr to the resistance movement. The French moved swiftly to contain the protests, attacking the neighborhoods and surrounding villages of both Setif and nearby Guelma with artillery and air force bombers. Arbitrary murder and rape by the French forces ensued. The attacks continued until the formal surrender of the tribes on May 22. The ultimate death toll remains contentious, with Algeria claiming more than 45,000 dead."

Bouteflika added "(...) We did not want, and we still do not want, to make the rising generation of Frenchwomen and Frenchmen feel guilty, for in our opinion they do not have to be responsible for what their elders did."

Bouteflika said "It was rather naive to be convinced that France as a whole, State and society alike, would push into in a hidden side of its collective memory this odious and shameful chapter of its history, and that with time, it would positively wave its colonialist drift against people on all three continents goodbye."

Butaflika said France must make an official apology to all those countries that had suffered from the French colonial domination specially the Algerian people who were subjected to French control for a long time and had suffered from all forms of torture and extermination.

Butaflika said that Algeria was peace loving Algerians were peaceful in their own country they know no thing about colonialism they even do not know where France is located all of a sudden in 1830 France invaded them and slaughtered one and half million of them destroyed their country and had kept them backward for more than a century, asking "What is the guilt of the Algerian people The price must be paid now so that it will not happen once again."

Although the Algerian president said this is part of France of the old days, and does not hold president Chirac accountable for it, some still see that old habits are hard to die, as the French president most recently threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran. Why would a French president say something like this against a country that has done it no harm is a puzzle that only a colonialist mind may be able to explain.

France colonialist brutal mentality remembered by Algeria

[Bernaoui]

There are no double standards here, our families all suffered the pure terror of the 90's but they also suffered the attrocities of the French for 130 years.

They are seperate issues, one doesnt directly effect the other.

People try to do there best but you cant change who you live with, the French however we dont live with, they want to do business with us, they want to purchase gas and oil from us, they want to export electronics and cars to us, we dont need them because there are 100 other countries who would scoop up our oil, our gas and who would sell us anything we wanted for at least the same price as France, therefore if France wants the privilage of dealing with us then they must give us the respect we deserve.

We cant say that because no ground has been covered in the fight for the truth of the 90's attrocities we should forget about what the French did.

I say that us not demanding serious economic subsidies from them and advanced technology for free is lucky on their part because that they owe us at least. All we, THE ALGERIANS, want is recognition of what happened and an appology, the fact that currect and past French governments deny what happened and are too arrogant to appologise really does illustrate how pathetic and ignorant they are.

You were right about the animals statement, I have come across dogs with more humanity than SOME VERY FEW French idiots who unfortunately are vested with supreme authority and ignorance.

"...People try to do there best but you cant change who you live with..."

So in your opinion, Algerian murderers do not have to apologize but French murderers do. I find it astonishing that you are able to separate the two!

"...we dont need them because there are 100 other countries who would scoop up our oil, our gas and who would sell us anything we wanted for at least the same price as France..."

Yeah, you go and tell that to Bouteflika and his mates so that next time he elects to be operated on in an Algerian hospital instead! We have strong historical, cultural and trade links with France and irrespective of what you may think, these links will continue to be strong for the foreseable future.

As for the "Friendship Treaty", let the historians on both sides finish off their work before jumping to hasty conclusion. Bouteflika attacks the French on a regular basis as a way of diverting the Algerians attention from domestic problems and gullible people fall for it.

Now here are some questions for you:

Why is Algeria in the Arabe League?
What's the Arab League good for?
Didn't the Arab League sell Iraq down the drain?
Shouldn't we withdraw from The Arab League and break off diplomatic relations with countries like Saudi Arabia, a country that used finance the barbaric islamists who committed atrocities in Algeria?

[Al-khiyal]

By Ali Ihsan Aydin, Algeria:

Algeria, with its energy resources, is one of the Africa’s richest countries. However, the civil war that broke out in the 1990s, signaling the end of 132 years of French occupation in 1962, has destroyed the country.

The country isolated itself during the years of terror, referred to as the "dirty war," and was devastated during this period. Social reconciliation projects launched a few years ago to leave this unfortunate period in the past have begun to bear positive results.

Algeria has taken giant steps towards political and economic stability, and life is rapidly returning to normal. Algerian streets, once filled with the fear of death, are now filled with joy. The country is still under French influence although years have passed since the occupation. The country’s aged live with the “pains of history,” and demand an apology from France, while its youth seem "indifferent" to the past. Young Algerians believe the way to a secure future is through France and admire them despite the painful experiences.

Although it has been almost half a century since Algeria, which was under French colonization between 1830 and 1962, won its independence, the French influence can be seen everywhere. The official language is Arabic, but in Algeria’s capital, everyone speaks French. Posters, and streets signs and names are in French. Some are written in both languages. Most official correspondence is still done in French. The capital is more like Marseilles than an African city when viewed from the coast. Algeria has only state-run TVs, and the French channels attract more viewers. Façades of apartments are adorned with satellite dishes pointed at French satellites. Some French channels, coded even in France, are viewed freely here, which seems a little strange. Aside from the every day lives of Algerians, French influence is especially apparent in architecture. Many buildings in the center of Algeria date back to the French period. Most of them house state institutes. In politics, economy, and daily life, many French traditions have become the culture of the Algerians. Politically leaving Algeria in 1962, France still says "I am here" with its ingrained cultural influence.

Living in French colonized, Algeria, and joining the war of independence, the aged Algerians rage at France, but the younger generation Algerians think differently. The older Algerians, still living with "pains" from the past, seek an apology from France, while their descendants feel attracted to France and the French language, with who they feel an affinity even through theirs a great distance between them. Kamel, 31, returned to Algeria after living in Britain for nine years, is a taxi driver. He relates the French "admiration" among the Algerians youngsters is a product of their sense of helplessness. He said the younger generation lost any hope for the future during the last terror period and added, "They have no other choice. Everyone dreams of establishing a new life in Europe. They first think of going to France since they know French. It is easier for them."

Kamel, who also lost his family during the war of independence, believes that what France did in Algeria will never be forgotten. Many youngsters we met in Algerian streets share these thoughts. However, living conditions, though showing signs of improvement recently, push the nation’s youths to look ahead rather than look at the past. In Mad Ibrahim suburb of the Algerian capital, senior high school students like Wahab, Calal, and Adel, who we spoke to about the 1945 massacres, confess they are indifferent to the past, saying,: "We are not interested in history. The future is our only concern."

We saw French symbols on many Algerian cars while driving from Constantine, known as "the Turkish-origin city" by Algerians, to Guelma. In Algeria, most people live in poverty despite the country being rich in oil and gas reserves, and minds of a nation have turned to France, just like its satellite dishes. Algerian’s younger generation wait for an opportunity to escape to France, a country follow closely from their television sets.

When we asked their opinion about the Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika’s accusation that France committed genocide, and then traveling to Paris for medical treatment, they responded saying it is quite normal, business and other issues should not be confused. Bouteflika's treatment at a French military hospital after his statements fuelled debate in Paris as well. Turkish origin Algerian Riza Bey Ibrahim terms Algerian-French relations "extraordinary" and said they are difficult to understand. "In fact, Algerians also think like the French. Many Algerians feel close to France, though they are angered by it."

Algerian youth, indifferent to history, seek future in 'Colonialist' France