Origin of berbers

[nimr]

Someone tells me of berbers coming from yemen and migrating to african up as far west as morocco. He tells of an oral account of berber history where they came from yemen and passes through the horn of africa. Is there truth to this?

[Funky_Buddha]

Originally posted by nimr
Someone tells me of berbers coming from yemen and migrating to african up as far west as morocco. He tells of an oral account of berber history where they came from yemen and passes through the horn of africa. Is there truth to this?

Hi there,
Here's the story of the berbers whose history and culture are basic components of Algerian identity as far as i know it..
These groups of people also referred to as Amazighs or “free men” use different dialects with identical roots and indeed different alphabets. At one time, they spread from the Atlantic Ocean to the Nile river and from the Mediterranean Sea to areas South of the Sahara. Their dialects are still prevalent in 10 countries of Africa today including 45% of Morocco’s population and about 25% of Algeria’s.

The Greek historian Herodotus said 5 centuries B.C. that Berbers descended from the inhabitants of Troy who had sought refuge in North Africa after their city was conquered by the Greeks.

A few centuries later the Roman historian Sallustus claimed they originated in Persia.

Later still the Byzantine historian Procopus saw the Berbers as being Cananeans who were expelled from Palestine by the tribes of Israel after the defeat of Goliath by David.

Perhaps one should ask oneself why the Berbers should have to come from some other land rather than have originated in this region of Northern Africa where traces of their civilization are found in the form of Capsian art (from contemporary Gafsa) from the 8th to the 5th millennium B.C. This population blended, as it seems, with Cananeans who first arrived at North African shores in 3200 B.C.

Managing domination from the North, the Berbers were quick to adopt the Christian faith when it was the religion of the oppressed against Pagan Rome. But when under the Emperor Constantine, Christianity was mainstreamed, the rural Berbers undermined Roman control by supporting the dissenting views of the Donatists as a way of challenging the Christian Establishment in Rome.

This was also a way for them to express their resentment to their romanized elitist compatriots who, not unlike their forbears in Carthage, became the adjuncts of the Roman Imperium. Amongst the latter were nevertheless such brilliant natives of contemporary Algeria as St Augustin who, in the 4th century A.D. had such a deep influence on Christiandom that it is still felt to this day.

During these 6 centuries of North-South linkage, the Romans gave citizenship rights to people from North Africa, and indeed the city of Caesarea, today called Cherchell, in Algeria was the birthplace of a Berber Emperor of Rome, Macrinus in the 3rd century A.D. Latin was spoken together with Berber or Tamazight and Punic languages. But Berber was rarely the official language under any regime with the possible exception of the Numidian State.

It was thus the Berbers who provided the first translations of the New Testament from Greek into Latin and an incontrovertible interpretation of Christian dogmas..

Easy

[Desertnomad]

"Their dialects are still prevalent in 10 countries of Africa today including 45% of Morocco’s population and about 25% of Algeria’s."

I've always thought of the Algerians being more Berber than the Moroccans. Numibia is centered in what is now Algeria. Saint Augustine was an Algerian.

[RS]

1st, it's good to see people looking for Algerian identity in Algeria and not on mars.
Then there is this quote: "Perhaps one should ask oneself why the Berbers should have to come from some other land rather than have originated in this region of Northern Africa where traces of their civilization are found in the form of Capsian art (from contemporary Gafsa) from the 8th to the 5th millennium B.C. This population blended, as it seems, with Cananeans who first arrived at North African shores in 3200 B.C." - Nobody came from anywhere ! North Africans went places...

These are not some lunitic "historian" writing his opinions, this is HARD SCIENCE "Thanks to Mme Curie" and many others.

HUMAN LIFE BEGAN IN AFRICA ! Lucy in Central AFrica and recently discovered Ghoul or something like that IN TCHAD !
So people elswhere far away from the this ORIGINAL POINT OF EVOLUTION try to build their history through possible scenarios o migration from and evolution from Africa to where they are. LOGICAL ! Way back when these people referenced as historians believed that EARTH was FLATE, they were but TERRORISTS who themselves were terrorized by thunder and lightening coming from the skies, and to associate themselves to that power, they claim that there place is where GOD landed, and thus they are the descendents of that God etc. NOW this 2005 you got a cell phone that talks to you OK? So lets get to it: imagine such African origine to be a point A Algeria a point B. You can definately trace a line bwteen these 2 points. Anything that falls on the line extended "may" have a common or shared evolution (for example the BASKS on the other side straight on the line(thick one though) between central Africa/Tchad and the Bask Country. THose of the East starting in Arabia has naturally evolved rom Africa in the Eastern Direction !

As to Christianity:

Jesus Christ is a JEWISH RABBI, and so were his disciples !
During the 1st centuries they went around in small communities all over the place telling the teachings of their chief(Jesus) - The Jewish problem at the time is that they needed a King just like now people need a president ! So Jesus was Crucified for his speech, by telling the Jews that God is in everyone ! It's not until the stories went around that ROmans Emperors whose armies were out of order needed another way of recruiting tax payers, and not able to conquor anymore with force, they wanted religion ! But by DEINITION a religion is a DOCTRINE, i.e a set of principles "HELD TO BE TRUE WITHOUT ANY PROOF", i.e a Belief! - It is when AUGUSTINE, the best SCHOLAR at his time and who happen to be also an Athiest WROTE DOWN the Doctrine of FREE WILL - Or translated word for word "TAMAZIGHT" - Well he is Amazigh ! SO Christiandom as we know it was NOT LEARNT in North Africa, but CONCEIVED OF THERE. Augustine was LECTURER, and yep his other name is Augustine of Canterberry, IRELAND ! Where people needed LECTURE.

Now Carthage: Carthage was burnt by built by EASTERN PIRATES
and destroyed by a coalition of Armies, mostly NUMEDIAN ARMIES, and by Numedian understand the inhabitants or modern Algeria. Marocco and Mauritania in one piece including POLISARIO was the Independent Peince of the Maures. There were Lybians too who were distinguished from the others. Carthage was a pirate city ! Tunisia is where the Arabs were left alone as in an burnt land by the Numedians when these had round 2 of their fights. The others were driven away as far as SYRIA and Iraq !

All in all, these past histories are not a valid reason to engage in hating the Arabs or Moslims. Religion as a Science has evolved and served as a source of inspiration for the "common good" of all God creations or simply People and their environment. They were all written in languages such that meanings are simply not SPECIFIC, etc ie AMBIGUOUS that "The interpretation one makes of a given text is wide open" - which resulted in many abuses and what have you ... including modern times 9/11 or 10 years of savagery in ALgeria, Afganistan and elsewhere...

All evidence tends to say that 80% of North Africans are Amazigh o race with many variations in the language, religion and history.

The bravery is in recalling that common denominator as a good reason to promote brotherhood, and clariy in our minds our relationships with others our ancestors have encountered in the past - Take the lessons and plan a better, clearer and more genuine and RESPECTFULL FUTURE.

[shashi_kapoor]

Yatik saha a RS

Fidna bel ouloum temps en temps, interesting

take care

[jaaxa]

Perhaps one should ask oneself why the Berbers should have to come from some other land rather than have originated in this region of Northern Africa where traces of their civilization are found in the form of Capsian art (from contemporary Gafsa) from the 8th to the 5th millennium B.C. This population blended, as it seems, with Cananeans who first arrived at North African shores in 3200 B.C.

I think most of those theories are pure nonsense, but to answer your question... "berbers" do not originate in any single location. They are, as you say, "blended". This is evidenced enough by the diverse elements which make up the "berber" gene pool. There are European, African, and Middle Eastern elements, and perhaps this is the problem. Diversity allows for all sorts of pseudo-historians to lay claim to a people they have absolutely nothing to do with.

In my opinion, whether berber origins are Capsian or Trojan (you are kidding?), it really doesn't matter. All of that is in the past. Everyone came from somewhere. No one today in this world, and especially not on the African continent, evolved in place. Why should berbers be singled out and questioned? Why should berbers imagine themselves to be yemenites or members of the lost tribes of israel, or anything else?

[gaya]

It seems like most of you don' t know much about Imazighen.
Take a look at that, you will probably learn a little, why not?:
http://www.emazighen.com/forum/