Algerian-Moroccan disagreements

[nardinef]

Can anyone please explain the war and disagreements between these 2 nations in the 60's; post Algerian independence. No offence to anyone, but I want facts, not opinions. Thank you in advance for your help.

[Moorish]

The Moroccans wanted to claim a western portion of Algeria as their own. It was 1963. The King in Morocco said that part of Algeria had been part ofMorocco however many years before and so it should be Moroccan again. So, he sent his army to invade. Long story short, Algeria in no mood to give any of its hard won territoty repelled the Moroccans back across the border. This conflict started a longer conflict between the two states that ended up using the Western Sahara as a proxy battle ground. To get back at Morocco, when King Hassan made the 'Green March" (he claimed that W. Sahara was also part of Morocco a long time ago so it should be taken back) into W. Sahara even though the territory was rurled to have "self determination"(ie it was supposed at some point vote on what it wanted to do as a territory) by the World Court, Algeria backed the Polisario Front, the local militia that wanted independence. Algeria still back the Polisario and to spite Morocco, pushed all over Africa and some of Latin America (also some of Eastern Europe) to get the Sahrawi Arab Republic recognized as independent from Morocco, and it worked. Most countries today recognize the SAR instead of the Moroccan claim. This hasn't made Morocco very happy at all and relations are very tense between the two states. Kind of like Nasser's Egypt and Saudi Arabia. You've got one state that was radically more progressive/revolutionary and a stuffy uber conservative monarchy at odds with one another in the diplomatic sense, but they tend to be able to work together on the international stage because thigns have calmed down over the years.

[TonyStarks]

Moroccan and Algerian business operators consider ways to re-launch economic cooperation

Morocco TIMES 2/6/2005 | 1:32 pm

Means to re-launch economic cooperation between Morocco and Algeria was the major theme of a meeting held last Friday between Moroccan and Algerian business operators, said MAP.

The meeting was held as a new air link started servicing the Moroccan economic capital of Casablanca and the Algerian western city of Oran.

Exchanges between Morocco and Algeria were estimated at US$ MAD 200.6 million in 2004.

Morocco's External Trade Minister, Mustapha Mechahouri, presented to participants a paper about the success of economic reforms in Morocco, citing in this context the annual 4.5% evolution of the average annual growth rate in the 2000-2003 period, compared to 3.6 in 1996-2000, the reduction of the budget deficit to 3% and the alleviation of the public debt from 48% of the GDP in 2000 to 30% in 2003.

He also surveyed, in a message read out on his behalf at the meeting, export-promotion efforts encompassing business environment, justice, administration, investment, finances and taxation.

He added that the free-trade agreements concluded between Morocco and several countries make of the Kingdom a platform for the European, US, African and Asian markets.

President of the Casablanca Chamber of Commerce, Industry and Services, Abdelhakim Kemmou, urged for overcoming difficulties that still hinder an adequate environment for partnership between the two countries while his Algerian counterpart, Ali Habour, called for boosting cooperation.

[ElHenni]

Basically there is little to laugh about in Algeria with everything that has happened over the past 15 years or 275 years whichever way you look at it.

So as a means of comedy Algeria regularly, almost yearly, invite Moroc to peace, arrange a big fancy meeting in Algiers inviting the King of Moroc to Algeria and then just as he is about to fly over they Algerian President or one of his miinisters says something to insult him and the King then immediately re-closes the borders and cancells the meetings.


At this point the Algerian Ministers and President are on their backs laughing thinking how does that King fall for it every year.

There is a joke about Moroc and Algeria relationship.

Chadli once visited the American President and saw his lavish lifestyle and said to him ''how can you live like this. I mean you have such a large house with fine silk and marble, are you not accountable to the people?''

The American President said, ''dont worry we have methods here, no one will ever know about my spending'' he then asked Chadli to come over to the window and look at a skyscraper outside. He said to Chadli '' do you see that skyscraper'' and Chadli said ''yes, of course.'' The president then said ''well its supposed to be 80 floors high but its only 60. I kept the money for the extra 20 floor in my bank account.'' At this point Chadli was amazed and commented on how clever the American President was.

Later that year the American President visited Chadli in Algeria. On arriving, he immediately said to Chadli ''how could you tell me that I live a rich life when your house is a palace with gold and rubies and marble everywhere, my mansion is nothing compared to this. How on earth do you manage to spend all of this and hide it from the people?'' Chadli said to the President ''come over here to the window and look into the distance'' The President did and said but am I supposed to look at?'' Chadli said dont you see the bridge over there connecting to Moroc'' and the President said ''NO''. Chadli said ''well, there is supposed to be one''

lame I know, but one thing I have learn is that Algerian jokes have to be told in Arabic and im no good at the whole transliteration thing...

[Rubine]

This whole conflict between Algeria and Moroco and the RASD is the most stupid thing we ever got ourselves into. It makes me so angry, I don't wanna hear about it.
Anyone who's been to these three countries would know that all the borders are completely artificial. Let's unite as one country and that would solve the problem once and for all. One country with 65 million people would be much more attractive for foreign investors. We couls use each other's resources and lnoledge and have a strong, common voice on the diplomatic scene.

[chenini_Z]

I am algerian in D.C with tons of morrocan friends but only three algerians in the group for a good six years we all respect each other and agree that all this drama is between our corrupt governments. The arab streets have feelings for each other for the sake of unity, borders were created by colonialism (Divide and conquer) Morrocans I know are men enough to tell me; they respect algerians for FIGHTING THE FRENCH. Trust me they know, I was told by my dad to coun a morrocan or Maghribi as the closest before everybody outside of algeria. And I hope that their king and our government will come to realise that we should be one.


Thank You
Zoubir

[lePharon]

Here's how I compile the substanciated, not so confirmed and the the totally dilusional infos that have been injected in various forms of propaganda, etc. about the matter.

To begin with, it goes back to post WWII, and even before that:

1. Way way back in the BC times, Jugurtha who doesn't need introduction anymore, but what the heck - The newphew of Massinissa whose life story is pretty much what you see in the film Gladiator whose victories over CATALANIA(Spain) and Gaulia(France), and Germania(Germanic states) wanted to Exit out of the Confedeation known as Rome, right after the death of Massinissa. He was twenty something... His wife was a "Maure" - i.e from the south-west, relatively to today's Constantine. Having defeated the Roman Armies over and over... He had to be given away by his father-in-law, by the name BACCUS. --> 1st rupture between the Maures and the Numedians.

2. Upon return from France and Spain in the 11-12 centuries, The Khaliphas could no longer collect taxes in north Africa to makeup for their losses in Europe. They were simply cleaned up out of Numedia(Algeria, Lybia), but some remained in the Maure region as long as they didn't demand any money. The same was tolerated to a small group of Arabs who didn't see in the Bagdad's Khaliph a legitimate entity, so they settled around Carthage, i.e Tunisia. There two appeared a second contradiction between Maures and Numedians, i.e pretty much Marrocans and Algerians, though at that time, it wasn't as clear cut as now - It was rather groups belonging to same clans living over a region. The Numedians occupied pretty much the region from Tunis(Est) to the Lybian borders all the way to Tiaret, then there were other groups in the central-west of Algeria, and the maures were along the Atlantic. --> There was the 2nd divid which will remain until today.

3. The Maures failed since then onward to join the Numedians in various revolts to oust the various agressors along the coast, including the Turks and the French. --> Further division at the gov. level of course. Further Religious order took more and more space in the leadership of Maures affairs, whereas Numedians rather managed their affairs based on pure capitalism, or Land ownership established legitimacy - Thus Moroccans converged towards a Kingdom whereas Numedians kept the Republic with maximum decentralization, in the form of Aarchs(confederations). Religion is A PRIVATE MATTER. Maures grew into a Patriarchical society, and Numedians into a MAtriarchical equalitarian one. Algeria is perhaps the place in the world where community level leadership was inherited by women directly from their fathers, or directly from their hunsbands, at every level including military leadership.

4. Napoleon's Arab Kingdom: Moroccan Royalty signed up big time, but Algerians NOT - While Abdelkader (Emir) accepted the deal with the French, the Kabyles since then Kabylie meant the entire center and east of the territory called Algeria today, simply objected it. He ends up sent to Syria.
It is then that the French engaged in break Kabylie down between the plains, the great Kabylie, the lower Kabylie and the Chlef and the south - Then came the demand for AN INDEPENDENT STATE - Moroccans settled for A PROTECTORAT, where Algerians wanted TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY. Given the strength of the Algerian movement for independance, the Moroccans allowed Algerian Nationalists to pass weapons through their territory, as did Tunisians. But we're not done yet ! - Immediately after the Avian Accords were signed the Moroccan King wanted to take over, i.e French to hand over power to the King, which failed of course, but a DISPUTE OVER BORDER LINES APPEARED. So, until today the borders between Algeria and Morocco are SEMI-OFFICIAL, i.e not recognized by Morocco. The same thing goes with the Lybians ! But there is JUST NOTHING THEY CAN DO ABOUT IT !

5. Polisario - The territory that was under control by the Spanish also known as the Polisario remained until 1975, and you bet your life that it was Boumediene and Algerian Services who cooked a rebellion in those territories against the Spanish Authorities. So, the UN spoke, and the Spanish decided to retrieve. There Morocco began its claim, and the Sahraoui resistance formed and trained in Tindouf said no ! The Sahraouis thus had a back-door where to retrieve when attacked and a SAFE BASE in Algeria where to attack from. Here's a joke for you - Polisario suddenly got equiped with lots of Russian Military Hardware. Under Boumediene when Moroccan plans would get close to Algerian borders, they would be counter attacked to the destruction way inside Moroccan territory. Algeria prevents a GENOCIDE against the Sahraouis ! --> Problemo numero 5.

The Polisario have been formed into a Republic which unfortunately is the image of the Algerian one, with some bizarre Arab word inserted in it. That is the problem !

Take care.