+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 36 to 42 of 48
  1. #36
    BeeMyBaby is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    316
    They only oppose if you make them oppose. I am sure I am following the correct path, but this doesnt mean to say that I think my husband is following the wrong path, because I see him as a good person who follows God. I suppose I just do not feel the need to impose my religion on others if they already have their own provided that it does not infringe on my beliefs/actions. For example, if my husband wanted a divorce (which God willing will never happen) then I would have a problem with this because Catholics cannot re-marry, physically they can, but in the eyes of God it is adultery (according to the Bible). Another example where they do not infringe, originally the Catholic church said that children who died before they were baptised would be send to Purgatory (Limbo), which the Pope has now ruled is not the case, so it is not a problem for the child not to be baptised. So on and so forth.

    '16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. '
    (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium)

  2. #37
    BACK2MYROOTS is offline Quarantined Users
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Leeds, West Yorkshire (UK)
    Posts
    377

    We are not enemies

    ... the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.'
    FELICITY

    Please understand that what follows is intended to be a friendly, non-confrontational exchange of views.

    It is the duty of ALL believers in God/Allah to seek the truth for ourselves and not rely solely on inherited beliefs from our parents and religious leaders.

    Anyone who seriously studies the history of the rise of Islam will quickly be amazed to discover that much of Christianity and Judaism is integrated-not copied- in Islam (minus certain 'distortions' [pls don't get upset and read on] ).

    Why 'distortions'?? Because the Bible was written 400 years after the 'rise' of Christ to Heaven (Western historians tell us this. It's not a secret). In contrast, the Quran was written as it was being revealed to Mohammad (pbuh), not after his death. So, there's only ONE version of the Quran and all Muslims believe that it is the Word of God. The differences between the Muslims are not about the revelation of Islam. That's another story.

    I'm not here to convert anyone, nor am I unique in saying that the only way for us all to co-exist side by side and enjoy our brief stay in this world is to respect each other's beliefs and traditions and celebrate DIVERSITY. So, each to their own. That's the way it has to be.

    Before I finish, and since you are showing some interest in your husband and children's faith, Islam, I suggest that you rent a well- known 1976 epic movie on the birth of Islam called THE MESSENGER, starring Antony Quinn. Place a request here, someone might send it to you. I am sure that you will enjoy it as much as I enjoyed watching 'The Ten Commandments'.

    There's a scene in the movie where followers of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) having fled from Mecca for fear of their lives, appear in front of the then Emperor of Ethiopia (a devoted Christian). The Emperor was wise and just. The men were seeking asylum. They were asked to explain why they entered the country and what the message of their new faith was about. The Emperor listened to their story then he rose from his throne and approached the men. He drew a long line in front of him and said, '' The difference between us is as thin as this line. Go and live in peace as free men among us''.

    That's the spirit that should prevail between us.
    Wassalamu 3aleikum.

    B2MR
    Last edited by BACK2MYROOTS; 3rd October 2009 at 15:05.

  3. #38
    Shotokan_Karate is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,734

    Thanks Felicity, I learnt something new from you.

    From that, now I understand better where you are coming from. But it is clear to me that the mismatch of teachings lies within Catholicism itself.

    If the belief in the divinity of Isa (PBUH) is not a requirement for salvation in Catholicism then many, many, questions arise, for example:

    1) Doesn't that contradict the Bible (as it stands today / claimed)?
    2) Does this make Isa (PBUH)'s mission / prophet-hood redundant? People before him believed in One God (e.g. Jews) and people after him believe in One God (e.g. us Muslims). What difference did Isa (PBUH) bring in respect of essential faith which did not exist before?
    3) Why the belief in the Trinity? And how does that affect your path to salvation (since the belief in it is not a requirement)?

    I'm not complaining If the path to salvation, for the Catholic or anyone, is simply to believe in The One Creator (with no "extras" in His divine nature), then great! That's a big step closer to Islam!

    Oh, when I asked for scriptural evidence, I was hoping for something Biblical i.e. what you consider to be as the "The Word of God". (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church? When was that agreed/decided? 1964? You don't suppose there are those who oppose it? (e.g. Traditionalist Catholics).

    But never mind, I wouldn't be surprised if you did bring something from the Bible (or Injeel to be exact) since it was, as we believe, originally the Word of God.

    The logic of it is the same in Islam, as Allah punishes whom He wills, and forgives whom He wills. If anyone is saved it's only by His mercy. Christians, Jews or [insert any title you want here] who worship Allah The Creator alone, sincere truth-seekers, and those who have not received the message etc are in parallel with Islam (if not Muslims) and Allah will decide between them and will reward them accordingly.

    Those who are in trouble are those who turn away from clear guidance when they received it and yet insist on disbelief and misdeeds.

    W'Allahu A'lam (By the way this means: "And Allah knows best")

    P.S. Again, well said brother B2MR. The film title is The Message (The story of Islam), to be exact.

    And here is the scene you are referring too:


  4. #39
    BeeMyBaby is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    316
    To both of the above posts - I watched the most part of that film a couple of years ago (though it is fairly long so I didn't watch it all) and I did know about that scene already. To me, it showed Christians being as they should, being loving to everyone. You could say that my religion was passed down to me through my mother, but I am aware of Islam, I am aware of Judaism, Hinduism etc etc. But through my own choice I am Catholic. What difference is there with my religion having been taught to me by my mother, than my husband's religion which was taught to him by his mother?

    Secondly, it would be awfully difficult to find 'scriptural evidence' condoning Islam in the bible, considering the bible was written hundreds of years before Muhammad existed, so you must deal (as must I) with the teachings of the vatican after his existence.

    When I was growing up, I learnt that Jesus was like a bridge to God, he gave his life for our sins. My personal belief is that a bridge makes a destination far easier to get too, but if someone chooses to go on a harder path then who am I to stop them. Also I do not believe in damning others, as we all agree, God is the ultimate judge. I also believe God is truly loving, so if you are a good person, then it will be noted.

    I could make a discussion about the fact that the bible was written after Jesus' death (which I fully agree with) compared to the Quran, but I won't as there is no point in causing a fight, I am not here in any which way to try and disprove or question the basis of your religion (unlike you seem to be). I was questioning the statements regarding marriage with a 'western Christian'.

  5. #40
    Shotokan_Karate is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,734

    Hi Felicity,

    You can refer back to what is allowed or not allowed in marriage in Islam and research it. It's not for me to say. I just happen to believe there should be "religious compatibility" for a healthy marriage and religiously stable household for the children, especially when living in the "West". You don't. That's all.

    But, inevitably, it's the natural progression of discussion we are at this point because it's the differences that set the ignition in the first place.

    No one is imposing their religion on others, and it's not about damning others, it's about searching for the truth and thinking for oneself.

    If I said to you: 2+2=5 wouldn't you correct me? If I insisted that's what I believe, wouldn't you at least try to explain it to me rationally? If our mothers taught us 2+2=5 would we just accept that on face value and say, well...that's what we've been taught so we'll stick to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Secondly, it would be awfully difficult to find 'scriptural evidence' condoning Islam in the bible, considering the bible was written hundreds of years before Muhammad existed, so you must deal (as must I) with the teachings of the vatican after his existence.
    That's where I disagree. The message of Islam is not new as I'm sure you know already. In the Qur'an all the Prophets are Muslims. Isa (PBUH) is a Muslim. Because Islam is the relationship you have with God, and so I could refer to many passages that describe Islam in the Bible. That's why I have an issue with the term "religion" as it stands today. Because that's not quite an accurate term to describe Islam. We use the term "Deen" to describe the path we take or in other words: "Way of Life".

    It's true that we could go on like this forever. So my suggestion is this:

    Let us go back to the source:

    1) Read the Qur'an cover to cover (Yusuf Ali's translation is the most popular. Note: There is no substitute for The Qur'an as it was revealed in Arabic, so keep in mind the inaccuracies of translations and add some research on top of that).

    2) Read the Bible cover to cover (Both Old and New Testament). I have set myself this goal for the near future inshAllah.

    This will take time, depending on your life schedule etc but it's a must, I think, for any faithful who is able to.

    Salaam and take care Felicity. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.

  6. #41
    amalgamate is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,860
    maybe we should stop trying to refute and prove and then refute and prove again and instead let the dame be what she freely wills to be.

    What are we trying to do here? convert people? We're going nowhere. If someone would like to learn about Islam, we teach them. If not, we should not intrude upon the other's religion and show it as inferior. Felicity is not asking anything of us except acceptance of being herself. And in Islam we accept her wishes and should not provoke her or squish her confidence.

    so kindly, i think everyone should get off her back


    just my two cents
    It seems as if one fails to conceive
    The meaning my name strives to achieve

    To a biological form you cannot relate-
    Because a reproductive cell is a gamete not gamate!

    It means to unite, -to become consolidated
    So without me in a.com, is there hope we'd be amalgamated?


  7. #42
    BACK2MYROOTS is offline Quarantined Users
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Leeds, West Yorkshire (UK)
    Posts
    377

    It's a discussion forum...

    WELL SAID AMALGAMATE BUT...

    I had already resolved not to add to my previous posting and was kind of hoping we would lay off FELICITY, having made our points. But she's a big girl and it's an open forum. There's no harm in having a discussion on the subject in question, quite the contrary, but I totally agree we should exercise some restraint and show sensitivity.

    I hope I have not hurt anybody's feelings.

    We should all take heed of the advice given in the following quote:

    '' The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.''


    B2MR

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts