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Any members going to this demonstration?

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  • Any members going to this demonstration?

    News link

    I think a first hand account from one of the UK members would be cool. So. Who's going?

  • #2
    It's intended to be a peaceful demo, and (given its likely size) a far more representative one than the 200 Al-Muhajiroun loonies goose-stepping and ranting around London the other day.



    V

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    • #3
      Hi Volt.

      From the article:

      But they said they needed to "channel" growing anger felt by communities across Britain that Muslims were being persecuted and made to feel like "second class citizens".
      Are Muslims being "persecuted" and made to feel like "second class citizens" in the UK, Voltaire? I'm getting a feeling of deja vu here. Just what the heck are you naughty Brits doing to your Muslims, Volty? Terrible things like providing food and shelter, I'd wager.

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      • #4
        No, the history of this isn't like that in the UK. Most UK Muslim citizens are descendents of, or in the case of the elderly, often actually are, people who were invited to the UK after the world wars to help rebuild the economy (or even prior to that during the Industrial Revolution). Many of those elderly were treated abysmally when they came.

        And their kids, grandkids and great-grandkids (who form the bulk of today's UK Muslim South Asian/Arab/Turkish population) are as British as me. So they owe me nothing, because they are my fellow Britons. They have as much right to be here, grow up here, f*ck up, learn from the experience, and try to get along here, as I do

        I guess what I'm saying is, It's not a case of me and mine "feeding and clothing" anyone. Although furthermore, people who come here fleeing war and seeking work, are also fine by me.



        V

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        • #5
          It just annoys me how groups like the "Muslim action Committee" always seem to portray Muslims as being mistreated in countries like the UK when they clearly are not.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bilderbooger
            Hi Volt.

            From the article:

            But they said they needed to "channel" growing anger felt by communities across Britain that Muslims were being persecuted and made to feel like "second class citizens".
            Are Muslims being "persecuted" and made to feel like "second class citizens" in the UK, Voltaire? I'm getting a feeling of deja vu here. Just what the heck are you naughty Brits doing to your Muslims, Volty? Terrible things like providing food and shelter, I'd wager.
            Muslims in the UK are not helpless peasants holding their hands out for money. As mentioned by V. they are as diverse and accomplished as Anglo Saxon Brits. There are incredibly wealthy and sucesseful Pakistanis and Arabs in the UK.

            If you look at property and restaurants and clothing industries they are heavilly invested in by very rich Pakistanis and Arabs.

            Muslims thrive in the UK, there are some who are poor but thats the same with any people.

            What made me sick was when the Pakistani Earthquake happened the GB Government only gave 13 million pounds in donations to the relief effort yet I have individual Pakistani friends living in the UK who have paid more than 13 million in taxes alone.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE]Originally posted by ElHenni
              Muslims in the UK are not helpless peasants holding their hands out for money. As mentioned by V. they are as diverse and accomplished as Anglo Saxon Brits. There are incredibly wealthy and sucesseful Pakistanis and Arabs in the UK.
              Of course you (and V) are right on this. I should have left off that last sentence. So what are the folks at the MAC complaining about then? According to the article, they claim Muslims in the UK are "persecuted" and treated like "second class citisens". WTF?? Somebody's lying.

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              • #8
                Its always the cause of such organisations to push the case for Muslims being oppressed but on the flip side there are groups saying that Anglo Saxon white British people are being oppressed in the UK.

                I think that some are but the majority arent. For me Britain is one of the last countries where u can actually make of your life what you want of it provided you have a good upbringing but the Government cant be blamed for that, its the parents job.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElHenni

                  ...on the flip side there are groups saying that Anglo Saxon white British people are being oppressed in the UK.

                  Really? Got any examples?

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                  • #10
                    In April 2003 Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons offering a lighthearted take on the resurrection of Christ to the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Zieler received an e-mail from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, saying: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think they will provoke an outcry. Therefore I will not use them." Two years later the same paper published twelve cartoons of Muhammad, including one with him wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a burning fuse. Predictably enough, it created an outcry. How we got from there to talk of "the Muslim threat" to the immutable European traditions of secularism and freedom of speech, while Scandinavian embassies burn in the Arab world, is illuminating.

                    Four months after the cartoons were published, Jyllands-Posten's editor apologized. In the intervening time Muslims engaged in mostly peaceful protests. Several Arab and Muslim nations withdrew their ambassadors from Denmark while demonstrators picketed embassies. According to Denmark's consul in Dubai, a boycott of Danish products in the Gulf would cost the country $27 million in sales.

                    All of this went largely unnoticed in the West, apart from critics who characterized the protests as evidence of a "clash of civilizations." In their attempt to limit free speech, went the argument, the demonstrators proved that Islam and Western democracy were incompatible.

                    Even on its own terms this logic is disingenuous. The right to offend must come with at least one consequent right and one subsequent responsibility. People must have the right to be offended, and those bold enough to knowingly cause offense should be bold enough to weather the consequences, so long as the aggrieved respond within the law. Muslims were in effect being vilified twice--once through the original cartoons and then again for having the gall to protest them. Such logic recalls the words of the late South African black nationalist Steve Biko: "Not only are whites kicking us; they are telling us how to react to being kicked........."

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                    • #11
                      BBC account of the London demonstration

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Al-khiyal

                        People must have the right to be offended, and those bold enough to knowingly cause offense should be bold enough to weather the consequences, so long as the aggrieved respond within the law.
                        That's all anyone asks (the part I underlined). Boycotts are legal. Peaceful demonstrations are legal. Burning embassies and incitement to commit murder are NOT legal.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bilderbooger
                          Originally posted by ElHenni

                          ...on the flip side there are groups saying that Anglo Saxon white British people are being oppressed in the UK.

                          Really? Got any examples?
                          The political party which has political seats and coucills across the UK the BNP.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ElHenni
                            Originally posted by Bilderbooger
                            Originally posted by ElHenni

                            ...on the flip side there are groups saying that Anglo Saxon white British people are being oppressed in the UK.

                            Really? Got any examples?
                            The political party which has political seats and coucills across the UK the BNP.

                            So the MAC is a Muslim version of the BNP. That makes sense. I knew I was right to suspect their motives. Lying bastards.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bilderbooger
                              So the MAC is a Muslim version of the BNP. That makes sense. I knew I was right to suspect their motives. Lying bastards.
                              Not really. The groups that support the MAC are (from what I can gather) primarily religious rather than political - for instance Iqbal Sacranie et al from the MCB are more comfortable talking about theological issues rather than political ones. It's only circumstance that's forced their hands.

                              The only possibly exception to this in terms of the mainstream could be the Muslim Association of Britain who (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I believe are associated with the Muslim Brotherhood?

                              However even they don't incite racial hatred in the way that the BNP do.

                              A more accurate comparison would be between the BNP and Hizb-ut-Tahrir or Al-Muhajiroun.



                              V

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