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Trial opens for accused Holocaust denier

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  • Trial opens for accused Holocaust denier

    VIENNA, Austria - A right-wing British historian goes on trial Monday on charges of denying the Holocaust occurred — a crime punishable by up to 10 years' imprisonment in this country once run by the Nazis.

    The trial of David Irving opens amid fresh — and fierce — debate over freedom of expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered violent protests worldwide....

    Trial opens for accused Holocaust denier


  • #2
    My view

    There's no point in this prosecution, or in the law behind it. Let the mad old tosser say what he wants. The trial will only bring extra publicity for him and his Nazi whackjob friends.



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    • #3
      sallim 3ala ya voltaire,

      I heard reports that he intends to plead guilty in order to win a mild punishment so perhaps he will not be making a soapbox of the dock.

      No nasty airings of complete 'free speech' issues likely either, eh?

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      • #4
        Hiya Khiyal, quite the contrary, it'll get reported widely all over Europe (probably as widely as the cartoons, if not more so) - the fact that it's a court testimony merely makes it easier.

        All of the papers here will be full of it I expect, along with opinion columns etc.



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        • #5
          aha, I see. I was wondering if a guilty plea with no justifications would make for a rapid procedure and an equally rapid dropping of coverage - you know how short the attention span of the media can be sometimes.

          We shall see if coverage is merely of his 'crime' or if the wider implications get explored as well.

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          • #6
            It'll almost certainly result in wide discussion of the issue (although probably not in the sense of debate on whether the Holocaust happened; after all the Holocaust is a historical fact, so there's not much actually to debate in that sense).

            There'll certainly be a debate about whether denial should be illegal, if only because there are large parts of Europe where it isn't illegal - including my (and Irving's) home country of the UK.



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            • #7
              David Irving pleaded guilty Monday

              VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty Monday to criminal charges of denying the Holocaust and conceded in court he erred in contending there were no Nazi gas chambers during World War II.

              "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," Irving told the court after his trial opened in Vienna. But he insisted he never wrote a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest."

              "In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis," Irving testified. Earlier, he told journalists he considered it "ridiculous" that he was standing trial for remarks made 17 years ago.

              http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu....ap/index.html

              A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
              By: George Bernard Shaw

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              • #8
                Although it would amuse me intensely if the lying old Nazi ended up sharing a cell with a 17-stone trucker called "Abraham"



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                • #9
                  Irving jailed for three years

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                  • #10
                    The guy for me is wrong, his conclusions are inacurate and must be driven by riht wing supporters (thats the only reason I can coe up with)

                    But to jail him, thats really bad. There are historians who have denied some of the tortures Muslims went through in Spain when we pulled out, there are those who deny the massacres of Algeria over the 90's or say that the figure is just a few thousand, some deny the slaughter of Algerians by the French.

                    Very silly ruling, freedom of speech is such a strong thing in Europe isnt it.

                    View 1
                    You cannot impose your Muslim ideologies on us about Muhammad(saw) and we must keep true to freedmo of speech and not appologise for these cartoons to protect this sacred law we have which is the foundation of the civilised world.

                    view 2
                    If you do not believe in what we believe in (holocaust) then we will imprison you, in essence we are forcing you to accept our ideoligies.

                    For me the difference between some of those extremist radical Islamicists and these European Holacaust radicals is a beard and thawb but not a mentality.

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                    • #11
                      A Bloody Disgrace !!! 3 years sentence for expressing his professional opinion on a historical event!!!
                      This is a black day for free Speech and an additional proof of double standards in our European societies.

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                      • #12
                        Depends which "European societies" you're talking about. The old fool's always been free to spout his anti-semitic crap in his home country.

                        And after all, in some countries outside of Europe *cough*Iran*cough* he'd have gotten a gold embossed invitation.

                        Ah well he's Abraham the Trucker's boy for three years now. Boo hooo



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                        • #13
                          It seems to me V. that you were very passionate about the cartoons being wrong but never the less acceptable under freedome of speech. Yu dont seem to be maintaining your stance across the board could it be a cough *Muslim thing* cough.

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                          • #14
                            Since when?

                            Have you seen me say anything other than that Irving has the right to talk racist crap if he wants, and should therefore not be in jail?

                            Have you seen me say anything other than that I think those cartoons are racist crap, but that the cartoonists should not be killed and their acts should not be illegal?

                            Funnily enough, for a long time I would have supported laws banning both Irving and the cartoons (I might even have argued the case on here at the time), but for philosophical reasons I changed my mind about both.

                            I think you're wanting a big bad imperialist to yell at - in which case I suggest you place a call to Bilderbooger, because I don't fit the bill

                            And if you're seriously accusing me of Islamophobic racism, then I think you owe me more than winks and innuendos in justifying your views.



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                            • #15
                              I simply made an abservation, you infered somhting into it that wasnt in my original statement.

                              I agree that there should be no law capping this kind of behaviour purely because I dont feel we should legislate that people should have common sense, the fact that people dont is a sign of how backward a civilised society is in this sole respect.

                              It also shows a lack of good balanced education.

                              This ruling however is for me pure dictatorship in so much as if you dont blend into the norm you cannot exist here.

                              Its a new trend emmerging across Europe, If you dont fit ibto Western dress norms you cant exist in France, Holland, Belgium (refering to niqaab ban).

                              Very worrying but predicatable. Its a sign of very backward leaders, I dont blame European citizens for ths.



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