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  • Zarqawi is dead.

    At least he did not die on 6/6/06.

    Well, to be factual, for sure he is not in heaven. I hope Iraq will get a reprieve and even some stability and move on to become a prosperous nation.
    THERE IS NO SALVATION IN RELIGION.

    "Unless you are 'born' again, you can never get into the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

  • #2
    Already posted on in more detail here and here

    Az-Zarqawi's death won't make any discernible difference to the violence currently raging in Iraq, which is very probably going to get even worse.

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    • #3
      Are we sure he's dead? Not wanting to be macabre, but people have said that about Bin Laden more times than I've had hot dinners.



      V

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      • #4
        It was announced some weeks ago shortly after the bombing of the wedding party in Jordan that Zarqawi had been removed as head and replaced, yet all of the media outlets have been reporting today that the he was the leader in Iraq.

        Its no great loss to mankind that he is gone, I was going to say that it would have been good to see him tried and convicted for his crimes but that is a futile avenue as seen in the trial of Saddam, Kosovo war trials, Bosnia etc...

        I think the only way forward for Iraq is for the re-establishment of Iraqi national pride, by this I mean a sense of nationalism which did once exist and still does 'ila hadin maa'! It is quite devious of both Iraqi, Western and militant leaders to have purposely divided Iraq into its various groups, divide and rule. I cant believe this is the wishes of the people, a recent dispatches video said it all when one Iraqi visited a graveyard and asked the caretaker is this a Shia or Sunni graveyard upon which he rather agitatedly replied what does it matter these are dead Iraqis of all backrounds, what does their backround matter they have all suffered the same fate by the same gun.

        On a lighter note, I dont know if anyone saw the sky news interview last night between one of al-Sistani's personal aids and the Gay rights guy Peter something I thing, British guy.

        Well the British guy was like two of your senior Shia clerics gave these savage fatwas on homosexuality, what do you have to say about that!

        The Shia cleric kinda gazed at him and was like hmmm thats interesting, the first cleric u mention is a middle of the road cleric who is the Imam of a Mosque in a small Iraqi town, even village u could say and the second cleric has been dead for 10 years.

        Was a very interesting debate...

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        • #5
          The Zarqawi myth

          Dead, alive, one-legged or two-legged Az-Zarqawi has been a product created largely for the consumption of the U.S. domestic audience. Reports are strongly indicating a positive ID, not bad for someone who has been allegedly killed before, but his death won't make a lot of difference other than rob various agencies of the ability to attribute acts to him that were actually carried out by others.

          The Americans 'made him' and now they are claiming to have finished (with) him. Don't forget:

          "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date."

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          • #6
            No one was able to collect the $25 millions put on Zarqawi's life.

            "What shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul."

            'What shall it profit a terrorist if he kill for revenge and lose his own soul.'
            THERE IS NO SALVATION IN RELIGION.

            "Unless you are 'born' again, you can never get into the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ElHenni
              On a lighter note, I dont know if anyone saw the sky news interview last night between one of al-Sistani's personal aids and the Gay rights guy Peter something I thing, British guy.

              Well the British guy was like two of your senior Shia clerics gave these savage fatwas on homosexuality, what do you have to say about that!

              The Shia cleric kinda gazed at him and was like hmmm thats interesting, the first cleric u mention is a middle of the road cleric who is the Imam of a Mosque in a small Iraqi town, even village u could say and the second cleric has been dead for 10 years.

              Was a very interesting debate...
              Didn't Sistani once have some anti-gay text or another on his www site, that he later removed?



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              • #8
                Originally posted by Theja
                At least he did not die on 6/6/06.

                Well, to be factual, for sure he is not in heaven. ...
                How did you know? Are you somehow in touch with GOD?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by voltaire
                  Didn't Sistani once have some anti-gay text or another on his www site, that he later removed?

                  V
                  There was an allegation to that effect, ya voltaire, but I could never authenticate it and so far neither has anyone else, to my knowledge. I commented about the claim here in post 721. The language allegedly contained in the alleged fatwa certainly doesn't seem likely to me to be used by As-Sistani.

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                  • #10
                    I mean, it depends what it says anyway to a degree. To put it flippantly, if it's (in rather more formal Arabic) "Homosexuality isn't terribly well thought of in Islam" then well, I wouldn't agree with his position on it but hey ho that's the way of the world. If on the other hand it's "All gays are disgusting perverts, going to burn in hell and deserve to be shot" then obviously that's more of a problem.

                    Interesting question though - perhaps one day we'll get to the bottom of it.



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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lazzhar
                      How did you know? Are you somehow in touch with GOD?
                      Probably just a (not unreasonable) ballpark guess - unless there's more to TheJa than meets the eye



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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by voltaire
                        I mean, it depends what it says anyway to a degree. To put it flippantly, if it's (in rather more formal Arabic) "Homosexuality isn't terribly well thought of in Islam" then well, I wouldn't agree with his position on it but hey ho that's the way of the world. If on the other hand it's "All gays are disgusting perverts, going to burn in hell and deserve to be shot" then obviously that's more of a problem.

                        Interesting question though - perhaps one day we'll get to the bottom of it.

                        V
                        It was alleged that As-Sistani decreed "that homosexuals should be killed in the "worst, most severe way." The point I would steer you towards is that there is no independent confirmation that any such fatwa was ever posted on As-Sistani's website.

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                        • #13
                          I read a similar thing but by a sunni cleric. Well I say read, actually I watched it, its on the www.memritv.org site. A Saudi Sunni cleric is making references to classical Islamic reports which indicae that some of the companions of the Holy Prophet(saw) debated over how a homosexual should be killed with each companion increasing the severity of the punishment. (throwing off a cliff etc...)

                          The cleric grossly missuses classical texts and does not give direct reference to the Qur'anic text in relation to the ahadith and established sharia, he furthermore does not make allowances for the difference between today and then or the context of the conversation between some companions.

                          As usual he is a Wahhabi Saudi cleric who missuses and interprets whatever he likes in whichever way best suites him as do most of his bretherin. Zarqawi and Bin Laden being two of them.

                          Interesting topic.

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                          • #14
                            The As-Sistani claim got another run out yesterday in this article that cites the BBC as the source for a claim that the alleged fatwa is still up on the Arabic section of As-Sistani's site. It isn't, and only later on in the article do we discover that the source of much of its slant is the ubiquitous Ali Hili. The photograph of alleged gays allegedly killed in Ar Ramadi in March for being gay is also misleading - no way on earth would anyone in Ar Ramadi be carrying out a decree on behalf of As-Sistani and nor would any As-Sistani-inspired death squads have any chance of operating there. The allegation against As-Sistani is going to continue to run as media outlets simply pick up old articles and repeat the claims in them without bothering to verify the accuracy of the information provided by the original (single) source.

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                            • #15
                              For one thing, Zarqawi is a murderer and he died in a state of a murderer. He is filled with hatred. Unwittingly, he has become the tool of the devil in destroying innocent lives and the economy of Iraq.

                              I know he went to hell because according to the one who came down from heaven (John 3:12) Zarqawi did the bidding of the devil (John 10:10).

                              Now in hell Zarqawi may be pleading other terrorists to repent and turn into good citizens (Luke 16:19-31) --- before its too late!
                              THERE IS NO SALVATION IN RELIGION.

                              "Unless you are 'born' again, you can never get into the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

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