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    >Subject: Fwd: PLEASE Read!
    >Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:13:56 GMT
    >
    >
    >>From: Monica Tarazi
    >>Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:51 AM
    >>Subject: [GNAA] re: my report from Jerusalem; 30-9-00
    >>
    >>I wrote this last night when I got home from Jerusalem. It's neither
    >>clever
    >>nor analytical. But it's what I saw. And what I saw was heartbreaking.
    >>-Monica Tarazi
    >>_____
    >>And They Call This Peace.
    >>
    >>Today, I went to Jerusalem. It was devastating.
    >>
    >>I was with a group of Palestinians from Haifa and its surrounding area. We
    >>were there for a conference which was canceled because of the `incidents'
    >>as
    >>the conference organizers put it with ironic understatement. So with
    >>little
    >>else to do given the general strike that shut Ramallah down completely,
    >>and
    >>wanting to do something practical to help, we decided to venture into
    >>Jerusalem and do just about the only thing you can do here without risking
    >>your life when there are demonstrations against the occupation outside
    >>every
    >>refugee camp and at every checkpoint. We went to the Makassed hospital in
    >>East Jerusalem to donate blood.
    >>
    >>The drive from Ramallah to the Makassed hospital in Jerusalem should take
    >>around half an hour. Just over an hour after leaving Ramallah, and having
    >>driven through settlement after settlement (because the only roads the
    >>Israelis left open were the settlement roads), we finally got close to the
    >>hospital only to be stopped by a row of Israeli soldiers standing in a
    >>line
    >>blocking the road and facing off with a few dozen Palestinian youths who
    >>were gathered around 50 years away. The soldiers were, as usual, heavily
    >>armed. They had about a dozen jeeps and several vans. The Palestinians,
    >>again as usual, had only stones. There were a couple burning tires in the
    >>road. Every now and then a Palestinian threw a stone in the direction of
    >>the
    >>soldiers (who were too far away to actually be hit), and then retreated
    >>but
    >>to his friends.
    >>
    >>I bumped into L., a German girl I know who lives and works at the Lutheran
    >>hospital down the street from the Makassed. "This has been going on all
    >>night," she told me wearily. "Yesterday it took me 3 hours to get from
    >>over
    >>there to here because the whole road was blocked." She pointed in the
    >>direction of the Makassed, about 150 yards away. She continued, "they (the
    >>soldiers) came into the hospital last night and were shooting inside..were
    >>had several of the boys die in here." she added, by way of explanation.
    >>
    >>Boys. They're killing boys.
    >>
    >>After a few minutes spent gaping in horror, we got back into our bus and
    >>cars and turned around. We drove about 20 minutes through the side streets
    >>until we finally reached the Makassed. As we drove to the front of the
    >>hospital we could hear shooting. The Israeli occupation forces were
    >>apparently getting bored just standing there and decided to take things up
    >>a
    >>notch.
    >>
    >>More shots, and an ambulance zoomed past sirens wailing. With her usual
    >>impeccable time, my mother called. I though about lying about where I was,
    >>but realized that she would be able to see through my fib - if not from my
    >>voice, then from the gunshots and ambulance sirens. I said I'd call back
    >>later.
    >>
    >>We were greeted at the hospital by an official looking man who guided us
    >>led
    >>us up the stairs to the rooms where the injured were being treated. The
    >>first man we met had been hit, by a rubber-coated bullet I think, in the
    >>head. He looked drowsy and his head was covered in bandages. He was about
    >>25
    >>years old. Someone from our group said a few words of support, and we
    >>moved
    >>on. In the next room was a man was lying with a bandage across is face. He
    >>was lucky: his eye had been blown off. If he had been a few inches to the
    >>right, the bullet would probably have entered his brain. In the next room
    >>was a young man who had been shot in the hand. The room after that housed
    >>a
    >>man who had been shot in the stomach. "He's in very bad shape," whispered
    >>a
    >>doctor. Stating the obvious slightly he added, "it's not good to be shot
    >>in
    >>the stomach."
    >>
    >>Downstairs the injuries were worse. A 13 year old girl shot in the
    >>stomach.
    >>A man shot in the head. Another had been shot in the heart - they didn't
    >>think he'd last the night. I stopped listening after that. Another room,
    >>another patient in agony, another family suffering in silence. And then
    >>another. And another.
    >>
    >>All the while, we could hear the sirens screaming as the ambulances
    >>entered
    >>the hospital. And we could still here the shooting.
    >>
    >>We went outside to the hospital's Emergency Entrance. There were probably
    >>two dozen people there, some in uniform, some not. One man had a megaphone
    >>which he was using to give orders to everyone in sight. Everyone seemed to
    >>have a cell phone which seemed strange until I realized that they were
    >>using
    >>them to communicate with the ambulances and the various taxis acting as
    >>ambulances.
    >>"There's one coming! Clear the way! Clear the Street!" ordered the man
    >>with
    >>the megaphone. "Only doctors can approach the car!" An ambulance roared
    >>in.
    >>They hospital staffed pulled out a young man with bandages around his arm.
    >>Someone yelled to alert the man with the megaphone to the arrival of
    >>another
    >>vehicle. Again Mr. Megaphone repeated his demand for everyone to clear the
    >>way and let the ambulance through. And again they did.
    >>
    >>This time the `ambulance' was a white service taxi van, one of many being
    >>used to ferry the injured to the hospital. Out came a girl about 14 years
    >>old. I guessed she was suffering from tear gas inhalation: she had no
    >>visible wounds, was breathless, and was clutching her head. Another
    >>ambulance arrived with another young man. Then another. Five ambulances in
    >>the 20 minutes we were there. I couldn't decide whether to be relieved or
    >>devastated that everything was so well organized. On the one hand,
    >>everyone
    >>had his job and knew what to do: it worked like clockwork. On the other,
    >>that practice makes perfect is tragic when the activity in question is the
    >>admission of wounded youths to a hospital.
    >>
    >>By this point I was shaking. Adrenaline, stimulated by horror and rage,
    >>was
    >>attacking my legs and arms. I felt weak, but strangely energized. My legs
    >>shook slightly as I walked. I was selfishly relieved when we were told
    >>that
    >>the outpouring of donations from the local community meant they had no
    >>room
    >>for our blood. I figured I needed every drop if I was going to stay
    >>vertical
    >>for the rest of the afternoon.
    >>
    >>From the Emergency Entrance we headed to the office of Dr. Khalid,
    >>Director
    >>of the hospital. Relieved to be able to sit down (I wasn't sure how much
    >>longer my legs would hold me), I gratefully accepted the Arabic coffee
    >>handed around. I just started to relax, when the shooting started up
    >>again,
    >>louder this time. So, as sirens wailed outside, and shots rang out from
    >>100
    >>yards away, Dr. Khalid smiled warmly and welcomed us. It's so nice to see
    >>`48 Palestinians here in the West Bank, he began, using the term
    >>Palestinians use when talking the part of Palestine lost in 1948. One of
    >>the
    >>women in our group interrupted him. "We are not the '48 Palestinians. We
    >>have always been here. They are the Jews of '48". But then she thanked him
    >>and put into words what we were all feeling. "Our hearts", she said, "are
    >>with you."
    >>
    >>We asked him about the people we had seen and the procedure for dealing
    >>with
    >>crisis such as these. He told us that yesterday 5 martyrs died at the
    >>Makassed. 190 people were injured and needed treatment. 150 were admitted.
    >>He told us that all five were killed by the type of bullets that explode
    >>after entering the body, causing maximum damage. "High velocity bullets"
    >>he
    >>said in English. I wondered if there was a way to say "high velocity
    >>bullet"
    >>in Arabic or if they always used English to describe them. He told us that
    >>the Israelis have no respect for ambulances, that they shoot at them and
    >>won't let them help or transport people. Later, someone else told me that
    >>yesterday, Palestinians lay injured on the street 50 yards from hospital
    >>and
    >>the Israelis wouldn't let the ambulances near them.
    >>
    >>He then started telling us about the `Disaster Plan' (again named in
    >>English
    >>but explained in Arabic). This plan has been in operation since the first
    >>days of the Intifada. Everyone knows his or her role, where they have to
    >>be
    >>and what they have to do. In times of crisis, all hospital staff have to
    >>either be present or on stand-by at a known location so they could be
    >>called
    >>in if needed. I thought of the `disaster drills' emergency medical workers
    >>simulate in Washington (where I worked with an ambulance service) so we
    >>could keep up our skills. They don't need drills here, they have plenty of
    >>practice.
    >>
    >>When we finished our coffee we went outside to the bus. While we were
    >>milling around waiting for our bus driver to get the bus, and for everyone
    >>to say their goodbyes, we watched the boys throwing stones and the
    >>soldiers
    >>lined up staring back at them. There was no shooting. Suddenly, all the
    >>Palestinians in front of us - about 200 in all - turned and started
    >>running
    >>towards us. Scared, I looked in the direction of the soldiers. My friend
    >>and
    >>I grabbed each other's hands as we realized that the Israelis soldiers had
    >>formed a line and were running towards us, their guns raised, and shooting
    >>wildly in our direction. Lots of gunfire. The ambulances and other cars
    >>fled
    >>towards us. Terrified youths, apparently scared of arrest and injury in
    >>equal degrees raced past us. Dodging them and the cars we ducked back into
    >>the hospital compound and someone pulled shut the metal gate. My whole
    >>body
    >>shook in fury and fear. Half of me wanted to run for cover. The other
    >>half,
    >>the part of me that was furious at the brutality of the soldiers and
    >>exploding with rage at the injustice of the situation, wanted to go out
    >>and
    >>join the shabab, wanted to pick up stones and hurl them at the animals
    >>shooting at us. Shooting at us because Palestinian youths have the
    >>audacity
    >>to demand their freedom, the gall to remind the world that they are human
    >>beings too with rights and pride, and the desperation to risk everything
    >>in
    >>the pursuit of justice.
    >>
    >>I didn't join them though. I cowered behind the gate until it seemed
    >>calmer
    >>and the youths started to return to the area. We opened the gate and
    >>stepped
    >>outside the hospital to see what was going on. We had just resumed our
    >>places when the soldiers starting attacking again. Again some 200
    >>teenagers
    >>turned around towards me and fled. They looked scared; I was terrified.
    >>The
    >>sounds of the bullets were getting louder and louder as the soldiers came
    >>closer. Again we fled into the hospital compound and waited.
    >>
    >>A few minutes later it was calm again. One of our groups sprinted to her
    >>car
    >>(which was parked right in the line of fire) and I opened the hospital
    >>gate
    >>for her. The buaab (part gatekeeper, part security man), a cheerful
    >>looking
    >>man in his fifties, smiled at me gratefully and asked in Arabic if I was
    >>from with the group from '48 Palestine.
    >>It was surreal. We stood in the street exchanging greetings. He offered me
    >>a
    >>cold drink, I explained what I as doing in Palestine. The shooting
    >>continued
    >>and the youths retreated again. And we stood making small talk.
    >>
    >>Finally we moved behind the gate. Our group was, we realize, stranded: our
    >>bus was outside but the gunfire was too heavy to reach it, and anyway, our
    >>driver was smarter than we were - he was nowhere to be found. So, we did
    >>the
    >>next best thing to getting the hell out of there. We had lunch.
    >>
    >>My hands shook as I lifted my fork and used my knife. They were still
    >>shaking several hours later when I called my parents to tell them I was
    >>OK.
    >>
    >>By the time we finished eating things had calmed down. The youths were
    >>still
    >>there. And the soldiers were still there. But the shooting had paused
    >>long
    >>enough for us to get to the bus. We got on the bus quickly and drove away
    >>towards the center of town. In three minutes we were at the Garden of
    >>Gethsemeny. Tourists were giggling as they chatted to each other and
    >>marveled at the buildings and the trees. I fought the urge to get out of
    >>the
    >>bus and shake them. I wanted to shout at them. "Don't you realize that
    >>they
    >>are KILLING teenagers less that 1km from here? Do you care about nothing
    >>but
    >>old stones and buildings? How can you go sightseeing when quite literally
    >>around the corner, Palestinians are fighting for their lives and for their
    >>freedom? You want sights, I'll show you sights. Go to the hospitals. See
    >>the
    >>sight of a mother crying over her injured child. See a wife praying her
    >>husband will survive the night. See the Doctors fighting to treat patients
    >>with no money, no equipment and no supplies. Watch teenage boys with
    >>automatic weapons shoot at teenage boys with stones. But for God's sake,
    >>stop giggling about nothing."
    >>
    >>Of course I didn't say that at all. I watched silently from the bus. And
    >>listened as the radio announcer read the news: clashes in Jerusalem,
    >>Ramallah, Nablus, Hebron, Gaza, Jenin. Hundreds injured, over a dozen
    >>killed. An ambulance worker shot in the head in Gaza as he tended to
    >>patient
    >>who had been shot. A child of 14 shot dead in front of his father as they
    >>tried in vain to shelter themselves from the soldiers fire. Another child
    >>killed in Gaza. Another in Nablus. A 16 year old from Ramallah. They were
    >>firing on demonstrators from helicopters and armored tanks in Gaza. I
    >>stopped listening and remembered the clashes I went to in 1998 in
    >>Ramallah.
    >>I remembered how petrified we all were when the helicopters arrived and
    >>started flying low. You can't hide from a helicopter, you see. They can
    >>get
    >>you wherever you are cowering. And I started remembering the sting of the
    >>tear gas they used to disperse the crowds, the fact that it stings your
    >>eyes, your throat, your lungs and your skin. And then I realized that all
    >>day I hadn't seen a single Western journalist all day. I wondered where
    >>they
    >>were and cursed them for their absence. And I cursed the soldiers for
    >>their
    >>brutality. And I cursed the Israeli government for putting them there and
    >>the world for not caring.
    >>
    >>Maybe when I have been here longer I will be able to understand the
    >>situation here. Maybe one day I will be able to grasp whatever it is in
    >>Israel's collective consciousness that enables it to act with such willful
    >>disregard for human life. Maybe one day I will decide whether they are
    >>convinced by their own pathetic excuses, whether they are motivated by
    >>anything besides pure, unadulterated evil. Maybe eventually I will know if
    >>Israel honestly thinks that in oppressing and brutalizing a civilian
    >>population, a people whose gravest crime is to exist at all, they are
    >>serving the interests of peace. Maybe, maybe not.
    >>
    >>Right now, as I sit at home writing this down, I'm too tired and depressed
    >>to care. My body aches from emotional and physical exhaustion, from the
    >>dreadful `low' that inevitably follows an adrenaline `high'. My head is
    >>throbbing and my mind is numb.
    >>But I am enjoying the silence.
    >>
    >>This weekend is the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah. Israel brought in the
    >>New Year by killing Palestinians.
    >>Start as you mean to continue.
    >>
    >>And they call this peace.
    >>
    >>The Global Network of Arab Activists (GNAA) is a democratic forum for all
    >>activists who strive to promote Arab culture and advance the civil and
    >>human
    >>rights of all Arab peoples. Unless indicated otherwise, all statements
    >>published on this forum represent the views of their authors and not
    >>necessarily those of GNAA. To subscribe to GNAA, send a blank message to
    >>GNAA-subscribe@eGroups.com. To unsubscribe, send the message to
    >>GNAA-unsubscribe@eGroups.com. Inquiries may be directed to
    >>GNAA-SC@egroups.com. Members may view the guidelines of this forum anytime
    >>at http://www.egroups.com/message/GNAA/3543?&start=3514
    >>

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  • #2
    Oh children of Palestine, hang in there do not give up hope.

    You will see the light, one day you will see justice in the making. The Zionists may have the money to buy power but GOD is above all.

    Oh children of Palestine, who are shot daily, who cannot go to school, cannot go out to buy bread and when they do their homes get bombarded and tuned to dust.

    Oh children of Palestine, how many times you made me cry hot tears and for days and days I felt paralized, with no appetite, no will, no smile, no hope or trust in this low world.

    Oh children of Palestine, how much more can you go on like this ? While Sharon & Bush are taking the piss out of the whole world ? How long can my beloved France stand still and keep silent ? How many petitions we need to sign and bombard the Elysee with ?

    Oh children of Palestine, oh you innocent faces keep your chin up and have hope while we pray for the world to wake up from his coma.
    Saha ftourkoum

    Salwah

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh children of Palestine !

      Do not cry, have patience, allah is much aware, so he will take good care.

      All humans are equal so do no fear Allah is so near.

      Oh children of Palestine !

      We know you are in pain and while some of us are thinking about our fame.

      Oh children of Palestine !

      We know the fear you have each time you wake up and we understand there is not much drink in your cups.

      But inshallah you will be fine, just be strong and give it all some time !

      Yasmin Hussein 14 years old lives in Florida
      Saha ftourkoum

      Salwah

      Comment


      • #4
        Shouldn't you be more worried about Algerian children getting killed in their dozens every single day?

        You're too obsessed with this conflict in the middle east, aren't you?

        Comment


        • #5
          Amazigh 3

          Hello there and welcome on board ! Would you please tell us about the Algerian children yourself. I am sorry I have never been there and I know about the Palestinian children more because of the media coverage. Hope to hear from you soon. Take care for now.
          Saha ftourkoum

          Salwah

          Comment


          • #6
            Palestine is far...very far...

            Dear friend,

            Since you haven't about Algerian children let me tell you.
            Massacres have been committed in Algeria where poor defenceless people were gruesomely killed. Many of them children. Rais, Bentalha, Chebli, Relizane, Beni-Messous, Sidi Moussa, to name but a few where hundreds of children were murdered with axes, knifes, and even thrown in ovens.
            So my friend, after all this we never received even one condoleance message from Arafat or the palestinians. They only come when they need money or support. We just wanted some compassion... no money, nothing... just a message. We didn't get it.

            So my friend, if you want to count the dead by the "kilo", I believe we have more "tonnage" to offer. In the meantime, we don't care anymore about Palestinians or Israelis. They can all kill themselves there. If we have a few tears left, we will save them for our own people.

            Palestine seems today far, very far... like a foreign land.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thamourth, let me tell you a true story.

              I was at the Lycee of Draa El Mizan. I had studied with the pers blancs before that. DO NOT UNDERSTAND ARABIC(point). The history course was about Algeria, tought by a Palestinian Refugee. This how he went: He would begin with A situation about Algeria, then in 30 seconds twist it to his own story by using an example. He would say: "Like Yahoo, not even Israel, taking the land, etc... of Palestinians, and begin teaching who the Palestinians are!".

              I asked once to get back to the subject in French which he spoke poorly, and I had his fist on my noise. He was huge, so I simply told him to go fight in his home-land if he had one. It was on the nineth grade(seconde) - In terminal, I was in ALgiers, another one (mosalmah) used to walk in the ranks and pull my hair from the back. These people probably were given Algerian passports too, to go plant bombs in Europ, and what have you, and they have definately succeeded in planting Islamic Terrorist in Algeria.

              So, please stop using the word thamurth, because you are not an Algerian Mister, you might be a refugee from somewhere else but definately NOT ALGERIAN !
              Your sallam stuff, go tell it to Israelis, really !

              The BBATH Party governs Algeria !

              Comment


              • #8
                Thamourth, let me tell you a true story.
                uhum... go ahead

                I was at the Lycee of Draa El Mizan. I had studied with the pers blancs before that. DO NOT UNDERSTAND ARABIC(point).
                ok

                The history course was about Algeria, tought by a Palestinian Refugee. This how he went: He would begin with A situation about Algeria, then in 30 seconds twist it to his own story by using an example. He would say: "Like Yahoo, not even Israel, taking the land, etc... of Palestinians, and begin teaching who the Palestinians are!".
                Well... I was lucky enough never to have had a Palestinian or Syrian or... teacher.

                I asked once to get back to the subject in French which he spoke poorly, and I had his fist on my noise. He was huge, so I simply told him to go fight in his home-land if he had one. It was on the nineth grade(seconde) - In terminal, I was in ALgiers, another one (mosalmah) used to walk in the ranks and pull my hair from the back. These people probably were given Algerian passports too, to go plant bombs in Europ, and what have you, and they have definately succeeded in planting Islamic Terrorist in Algeria.
                True.

                So, please stop using the word thamurth, because you are not an Algerian Mister, you might be a refugee from somewhere else but definately NOT ALGERIAN !
                Your sallam stuff, go tell it to Israelis, really !
                I beg your pardon? Here's what I have to answer:

                1- I am Algerian, born in Algeria and writing to you right now from Algeria. If you are in doubt then set up a web server on your PC, which serves a page and give me the addresse. I will click it, (access it) and you can check your log and see that the IP is from Algiers. If your are yourself in Algeria, then I can come and meet you wherever you are... mister.

                2- I didn't use salam in my posts. check my hundreds of posts and you will see that I use Azul in 99% of them...

                3- I wonder why you get so upset when I say that I don't give a fcuk about Palestinians or Iraqis or such... I think you are the foreigner in disguise...

                4- Thamurth is my land, Algeria (thamurth) is my nation and it belongs to those who speak my way (l'Imazighen... eli bel baroud yeftoutsen)

                Ar tufat aghuyl croise

                P.S:
                The BBATH Party governs Algeria !
                There is no baath party in Algeria. Even the FLN is just a bad copy of it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thamurth:

                  You are wrong, I am not Algerian, indeed the word means nothing substancially real, as you prove it yourself. At any rate, my concerns were about mixing the Arabo-Islamo-Palestinian dilema with the Algerian one. Palestinians are in better shape than let say the Kabyles, and there are so many places where you could post your stuff about Palestine.

                  Now, in my opinion, you are an Algerian-Agent, to be so able to publicise your trips to Israel, etc. and to have access to a computer! But who cares?

                  What does that mean, you will come and see me in person? Threaten me with violence? You make my point right there!
                  Why didn't you just stay there in Ramallah and go threaten the Israeli GIs...ahahahaha... I invite you to a friendly combat of "MIND" and Intellect !

                  Don't you have any stories about massacres in the Kabylie region ?

                  As to whether I am ALgerian or not, this is the story:
                  Is North Africa the place of my ancestry? - Yes.
                  Do I use Algerian documentataion for identification? - No.

                  No, one has to question this notion of being Algerian. Do you mean a citizen? - I do not think that you can ask that question for the following reason.
                  The citizen is an element of a republic or the rpublic is made of citizens (two ways). And in the case of the set of persons living in "Algeria", neither of the above propositions applies! - Construction by inductive or deductive means. In the inductive (Elite sets up the axioms of republic and manages it, the requirement is that the elite is chosen by the elements which is not the case. The other direction is false as well, as our conversation here shows (I from far away treat of "North Africa" and you there are busy with Palestine.

                  Pas de Baath Party in Algeria? Its agenda certainly is !

                  ---------- I let you conclude who is Aghyoul ! ----------

                  Your government set its policies to push the BAATH agenda, the BAATH agenda is under fire. (remark)

                  What is the problem then? (in Algeria that is).

                  Simple question:
                  Algerian oil&Gaz revenues = $20 billion( / year)
                  Algerian Population(adult)= 20 Million average it
                  it looks like $1 million / adult per year.

                  If a person gotten a half of that, people would fix their own neighbourhoods, associations their regions. And Algerian people would be fighting to death for their territoty, and NOT CHANT VISAS ! to chirac !

                  The minds are in Palestine, that's what and why !





                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rebbi yaatik thakavachet ya aghuyl:

                    You are wrong, I am not Algerian,
                    I never said you were Algerian. I said I think you are a foreigner in disguise in my last post. Thank you for confirming that you are not an Algerian citizen...

                    indeed the word means nothing substancially real, as you prove it yourself.
                    To you it doesn't mean anything substantially real. To me it does. But after all would you understand a word such "Inichi" in the language of our African neighbours the Bambaras? Surely not. It wouldn't mean anything to you just like "Algerian" means nothing to you. It's called ignorance.

                    At any rate, my concerns were about mixing the Arabo-Islamo-Palestinian dilema with the Algerian one.
                    Well, I simply don't care about the Palestinian dilema as you would have noticed from my previous posts where I indicated that Palestine is a far away land to me as an Algerian. And so are Palestines problems. You would need a neurone or two, to understand that however.

                    Palestinians are in better shape than let say the Kabyles, and there are so many places where you could post your stuff about Palestine.
                    1- I didn't start this thread on Palestine.

                    2- I wrote only 1 post ages ago to tell people that as an Algerian I don't care about Palestine, because we have more serious issues to deal with in Algeria.

                    Now, in my opinion, you are an Algerian-Agent, to be so able to publicise your trips to Israel, etc. and to have access to a computer! But who cares?
                    I think you got the wrong person:

                    1- I never went to Israel, nor said that I did. I CHALLENGE you to find me a post where I said such a thing.

                    2- I have a computer at home and one in my office. Is it neither a crime nor an extravagant luxury in Algiers. A PC can be bought here for 40,000 dinars. A mobile phone costs 30,000 dinars here and you can see people by the thousands with them on the streets, whether DJEZZY or ALGERIE TELECOM customers.

                    3- I am nobody's agent. I am however a staunch Algerian nationalist and anti-islamist.

                    What does that mean, you will come and see me in person? Threaten me with violence? You make my point right there!
                    No sir. You have no point at all. I offered you to prove to you that I am an Algerian in Algeria. If I was in the threatening business I would go do so on the streets of Algiers not on a web site where there would be no "real substantial" profits to be made.

                    Why didn't you just stay there in Ramallah and go threaten the Israeli GIs...ahahahaha...
                    Me in Ramallah??? For what??
                    Me fighting the Israelis??? For what??
                    Israeli... GI's??? What the fcuk are you on about???

                    I invite you to a friendly combat of "MIND" and Intellect !
                    Whenever you want, even though I doubt that you have a mind to participate.

                    Don't you have any stories about massacres in the Kabylie region ?
                    I'm not into morbid stuff. Go read the papers to get what you want. Alternatively, whenever you become a "non-blood thirtsy" evolved ape, you can go and read my posts in the open board on this site calling and explaining for the autonomy of the Kabylie... That's the stories I have to offer you on the Kabylie. Or you might want to read the Kabyle tales I wrote in the thread on Stories and tales from Algeria in the open board again.

                    As to whether I am ALgerian or not, this is the story: Is North Africa the place of my ancestry? - Yes.
                    Do I use Algerian documentataion for identification? - No.
                    Ok, you aren't an Algerian citizen. I think everyone got that now. Congratulations. Next please...

                    No, one has to question this notion of being Algerian.
                    May I remind you that you were the one to question me being Algerian in your previous to previous post. So start with yourself before becoming a preacher.

                    Do you mean a citizen? - I do not think that you can ask that question for the following reason.
                    No I don't mean a citizen. Frantz Fanon was Algerian even though he wasn't an Algerian citizen. My grand mother was Algerian even though there was no Algerian Republic or citizenship at the time in 1957. It's not rocket science.

                    The citizen is an element of a republic or the rpublic is made of citizens (two ways). And in the case of the set of persons living in "Algeria", neither of the above propositions applies!
                    Algeria is a country. It can be a republic or a monarchy or an anarchy or... That doesn't change the fact that it is still a country. As I said it's not rocket science.

                    - Construction by inductive or deductive means. In the inductive (Elite sets up the axioms of republic and manages it, the requirement is that the elite is chosen by the elements which is not the case. The other direction is false as well, as our conversation here shows
                    An elite is never chosen by the masses. Stop dreaming, we're not in 1917 anymore. Neither a military, a financial, or a scientific elite is chosen by the masses. Now if you are talking about a government that's a totally different thing.

                    I from far away treat of "North Africa" and you there are busy with Palestine.
                    I wasn't focusing on Palestine in my posts. I was saying that Algeria is more important to us to talk about in the "politics" section of algeria.com than Palestine. Hence your statement about me talking of Palestine implying that I am preoccupied about it makes no sense. It will teach you to read carefully next time before talking nonsense and lashing out at people.

                    Pas de Baath Party in Algeria? Its agenda certainly is !
                    There are so many agendas in Algeria. Islamist, Democrat, Nationalist, Communist, etc... Algerians don't all want the same thing when it comes to a political project. Just like any other nation.


                    I let you conclude who is Aghyoul !
                    I have already done so and it is YOU.

                    Your government set its policies to push the BAATH agenda, the BAATH agenda is under fire. (remark)
                    I have no government. I don't support the economic or ideological policies of this government. Read my posts there are hundreds of them before talking nonsense ...dha mechum.

                    What is the problem then? (in Algeria that is).

                    Simple question:
                    Algerian oil&Gaz revenues = $20 billion( / year)
                    Algerian Population(adult)= 20 Million average it
                    it looks like $1 million / adult per year.

                    If a person gotten a half of that, people would fix their own neighbourhoods, associations their regions. And Algerian people would be fighting to death for their territoty, and NOT CHANT VISAS ! to chirac !
                    If you were able to do some basic mathematics such as divisions you would have noticed that 20 billion divided by 20 million makes 1,000 and not 1,000,000. But unfortunately an AGHUYL like yourself who thinks that the Algerian population is at 20 million when all the sources state at least 29 million, is only capable of doing MUFTIplications and diviZIONs not multiplications and divisions.

                    Go back to your 4th grade Math book before trying to make remarks on the economy. AGHYUL.

                    The minds are in Palestine, that's what and why !
                    Maybe yours is. In the mean time I will repeat to you what I wrote in my first post and only one before you came along to convince yourself that my mind was in Palestine:

                    ...In the meantime, we don't care anymore about Palestinians or Israelis. They can all kill themselves there. If we have a few tears left, we will save them for our own people. Palestine seems today far, very far... like a foreign land...


                    Ar tufat aghuyl croisé



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                    • #11
                      Thamurth:

                      I think that the previous exchange was done way back...
                      I was I remember tired late at night, and had to answer the other guy now that I realize that We were defending the same argument, that for each his own... However, I retained the word Thamurth so I begun with TAHMUSRTH: like I am doing here and my frustration went straight to you (LOL).

                      You call me Aghyul, and I call you THAFUNASTH, because in defending yourself, you could have realized that my answer was not to your argument (even if it began with THAMURTH), and signaled that, and wait for confirmation. So, the 1st mistake was mine (AGHYUL) the second is yours (THAFUNAST).
                      I am llaughing so loud.... But I have read one of your posts, in which you made you re-aligned with me ...
                      So, the mistake was genuine and I apologize. The only reason I come onto this board is to make sure that Algeria.com doesn't become Palestine or Iraq.com.... because for the middle-easterner as you point it out well, Africa is a jar for blood and money...an acquired thing by the powers of allah... It's a given! Hope this is satisfactory to you. To add some precision, Yes I am an dual citizan (Algerian-American) of purely North-African and Amazigh ancestry. And you are correct, I had disconnected from ALgerian affairs for too long... As to Math, I am a Mathematician! If you have read Said Saadi's book about Culture and Democracy then you must have read about me. Hend has just published a Math Book in Tamazight.
                      But Mathematics are no longer of interest to me since there is no context for them to help the current situation in Kabylie - I am glad to see that you are pro-federalism in Algeria, because I too am tired of trying to educated and what have you the so called "AMAZIGH ARAB MUSLIM" in Algeria. With autonomy, Tamazight and running water, security etc. will simply be real things to face. Kabyles get nothing from the fregging oil anyway, so we will have to rely on know how. Service oriented culture. So be it American or French or whatever that takes over, there is no difference in Kabylie. Truth is I have no idea what's going on in ALgeria for real ! The hunting of the Islamists-Terrorists by the army is good news though. I grew up playing soccer in Thakoukt against others from Beni-Yenni, Beni-Douala, and Azzafoun, and of course listening to Ait Menguelet. Do you know that region?

                      Arthufat !

                      J.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jugeten the megalomaniac

                        You know what we say in Arabic ? ezalat wa tfareen..

                        totally broke and playing god !

                        You want a kabylie seperated and you want the french to come to help you for what ? Look at the harkis , haven' t you learned ? You must be joking a separate little country side ok but what are your resourses how can you survive ?

                        Please don't have this big fantasm about services you are not Italians or Lebanese known the world over for theirs services. You are dazed and confused go back to islam read Quoran you will find solace I promise you.. give up this behavior it is energy sucking and life will pass you by without ever achiving anything.

                        Hatred is the cause of all diseases.. look after yourself and stop day dreaming !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          GoLucky:

                          I realize that you do not understand what the Independance movement is about. That's too bad, you read the draft.

                          The Kabylie region doesn't receive a penny from that government. So I guess Kabyles drink olive oil and eat stones for 40 years and stillliving !

                          So you who knows every thing: I need to explain to you something. you have to admit to the reality that the Algerian people are not all the same. You cannot manage a Kabyle village as you would one in Ouargla or other places.
                          We have our difference with regard to day to day life, policing the streets, etc. It's question of understanding that there is a need for people for inclusion(feeling of belonging to their immediate environment)- Different regions would have their representatives like it's done everywhere(almost). Because now, the majority of people not only in Kabylie are excluded from the republic. I am writing to you from a city not even state with a flag and a full structure of local people managing their lives, and electing their representatives to a congress/National Assembly. In other words the governing body needs to be a body that people sent from their regions into a federal government whose responsibilities are defined by the assembly of representatives. Not a separate country and all that... that's the distorsion of th citizan's movement.
                          Religion is a personal matter. When it is that way, believe me Islam or any other religion are restrained, and people benefit from the aspiration for the good in the theology. It is not Islam that is a problem, it is its usage by people to gain power over those who are not. It's a distorsion of the religion itself. The same goes with Arabic language. Kabylie has Arabic and scholars and scholars of Islam. It's the interference by the state into religeous affairs or vis versa that is the problem, and here in America where every religion is represented, the problem does not exist, not does it exist in any country that has separated the 2(government and religion). The reliance of the Immams on tax money is the problem, because there are non-muslims who do not want to pay that tax. Every other other religion lives of donations of its membership. So, if people really want their religion they will contribute. I HOPE i CONVEYED TO YOU SOME EXPLANATION.
                          i THINK THAT you must have read my postings answering a guy with the name KKK who puts down ALgerians generically, and convey Islam and kingdom as ways of governance and managing one's country, like morocco.

                          J.

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