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  • #31
    And the soviet union a so-called athiest state that tried to do away with all religions, how many people did they kill?
    http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

    Or communist china, besides the government killing the people, how many baby girls were killed by their parents because they wanted a baby boy? It's nothing to do with religion, it is the responsibility of individuals what they do, each person is accountable for their own actions, the nazi regime who followed no religious body, how many did they kill, or torture for that matter?! However one thing is sure, when you have this going on on a mass scale, people get used to it, they find it almost acceptable, the germans who turned a blind eye to the deathcamps, but they knew they were there. Islam cannot be blamed, nor christianity etc etc

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    • #32
      Originally posted by lazzhar
      Can someone remind us how many are the victims killed by seculasit goverments in the last european world war? Someone mentioned 27 million russians? I missed my high school history courses so I might be mistaken if I say they were over 60 miilion?
      Anyhow, they got the top ten record not religious islamists.
      Who says those who did the killing did it in the name of secularism or that they were atheists determined to annihiliate religious people? You'll find that the reason for the killing of over 20 million Russians in the second world war lies somewhere else. Those who believe in secularism are on the whole not extremists and preach tolerance and co-habitation unlike the muslim zealots we had to endure for over 10 years in Algeria.

      One can argue about the merits of a genuine compassionate peace loving muslim as opposed to a phoney one hell bent on using violence to force others to his way of thinking but that'll be a discussion for another time.
      A dios rogando y con el mazo dando

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Bernaoui
        Who says those who did the killing did it in the name of secularism or that they were atheists determined to annihiliate religious people? You'll find that the reason for the killing of over 20 million Russians in the second world war lies somewhere else. Those who believe in secularism are on the whole not extremists and preach tolerance and co-habitation unlike the muslim zealots we had to endure for over 10 years in Algeria.

        One can argue about the merits of a genuine compassionate peace loving muslim as opposed to a phoney one hell bent on using violence to force others to his way of thinking but that'll be a discussion for another time.
        You know what, I think it's the first time I've read a grown up point of view around here. Thanks.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Bernaoui
          Who says those who did the killing did it in the name of secularism or that they were atheists determined to annihiliate religious people? You'll find that the reason for the killing of over 20 million Russians in the second world war lies somewhere else. Those who believe in secularism are on the whole not extremists and preach tolerance and co-habitation unlike the muslim zealots we had to endure for over 10 years in Algeria.
          Same goes for Islamism. But the damage caused by atheisits is worse in all history and their crimes are the most discusting. It's just a simple question of math to an observer watching from a place say like planet mars.
          When you want to blame ideologies please put them all in the same basket because each one could lead to good or evil likewise.
          I won't forget that secularists in algeria were organized under groups named : "Les escadrons de la mort" (Squadrons of Death) did kill innocent algerians as everyone knows. Not only islamists did crimes in algeria.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lazzhar
            Same goes for Islamism. But the damage caused by atheisits is worse in all history and their crimes are the most discusting. It's just a simple question of math to an observer watching from a place say like planet mars.
            When you want to blame ideologies please put them all in the same basket because each one could lead to good or evil likewise.
            I won't forget that secularists in algeria were organized under groups named : "Les escadrons de la mort" (Squadrons of Death) did kill innocent algerians as everyone knows. Not only islamists did crimes in algeria.
            How do you know these groups, if they existed, were killing in the name of secularism? Where is your proof?

            Also being secular does not necessarily mean being atheist but simply favouring the separation of religion from politics in the constitution of a state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism).

            I have always suspected that crimes were not only committed by the islamic extremists but also by the army or factions within the army or the shadowy security service. However, I don't believe for a moment they committed these crimes in the belief of turning Algeria into a secular country but rather for their own self-interest (financial gains and political privileges). Given that the extremists were defeated, why is it that Islam is still enshrined as the state religion in our constitution?
            A dios rogando y con el mazo dando

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bernaoui
              How do you know these groups, if they existed, were killing in the name of secularism? Where is your proof?
              While there were no serious investigations that has taken place until today, we only take what we hear and read in the algerian press during those days as a source of information. On the other hand, as long as I can't give you proof that those "Escadrons" were raging you can't give any proof of the existance of other islamic groups. However I've heard many political personalities speaking about them like Louiza Hanoune among others.

              Originally posted by Bernaoui
              I have always suspected that crimes were not only committed by the islamic extremists but also by the army or factions within the army or the shadowy security service. However, I don't believe for a moment they committed these crimes in the belief of turning Algeria into a secular country but rather for their own self-interest (financial gains and political privileges). Given that the extremists were defeated, why is it that Islam is still enshrined as the state religion in our constitution?
              Agreed.

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