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  • #91
    Originally posted by salma View Post
    Yes well, I'm guessing that it's not actually a trend for Algerian men (or women) to look outside the country? I could be wrong...what do I know. Perhaps someone could enlighten me
    I don't think there has never been a trend ... if you ask me. Either it is called LOVE ... or simply a matter of "convenience", I'd say.


    Originally posted by salma View Post
    @ Jazaireya4ever - there is a problem I believe in Australia also with men not being men. ):
    I don't have the same definition of manhood as yours ... I don't seem to expect the same things from men as you either ... it's more a matter of who we are deep down and where we want to go than what nationality or colour we are.

    Originally posted by salma View Post
    I have pondered why there seems to be many women from the west turning to Islam while men don't seem to as much. Perhaps Western men are happy with their lot at the moment? Afterall an Aussie man can get married and his wife will be expected to do the majority of housework, have and raise children and most likely work as well. Why would he want to become Muslim and have a real responsibility to look after her (and their children) properly? See Jazaireya4ever...you're not the only bitter one!

    I certainly never set out to marry an Algerian...but as a Muslim it's hard to find a partner here and alhamdulillah I happened to find a good man all the way over there. What to do?
    Correct me if I'm wrong ... but you are looking for a good man, a man who will look after you "properly" (... and you seem to think that you will find that person among Muslims), I think you are overestimating Muslims (or the people who say they are Muslim) and underestimating "your people".

    If I like Algerians, it's because of (or thanks to) what they are (defects included), because they are "my" people ... because in spite of everything, we share the same values (not only religion) ... we share the same history (it's much stronger for Algerians, I'd say without meaning to be chauvinistic) ...

    If western women turn to Islam, it's because it's the only place (at the moment) where you can get values (l'Occident a perdu ses valeurs, s'est vidé de son essence) ... don't be misled, Western men turn to Islam too. But they are less visible than women.

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    • #92
      And I'll drink mint tea for two.

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      • #93
        Salma,

        I think it has to do with men all over the world, I think now a man would have to really prove himself or I'd have to really see him as a man and not "something that appears to be a man" LOL. As far as I know, it has to do with something that I'd call the metrogayish trend that is spreading its cancer all over the world.
        But hamdullah, there is still a whole load of normal individuals who are worth it.
        And it's good for you but I personally don't fancy Western born boys, or those who are Westernised and are inked into it (acting - thinking...) ya3ni those who act more White than the Whites themselves.

        Tipaza,

        Just as we said, regrets come too late and when it's too late ma ynfa3sh...
        And this generation who went abroad and had their fun with Western women simply hated themselves and their own people, that's the bottom line really and now when the country is under the projectors and plays a role on the scene, they feel like they missed on something LOL, I know someone who did just that and does not really seem to regret it in spite of what's being said, you know when words and actions don't match, that's what it is, even if they have one messed up family, that doesn't make them seriously think; Then LOL, 40 years later they ask their partner to convert or change as if this would make them change!
        It was so fun, why isn't it all fun anymore? Wasn't it supposed to last a lifetime Allow them, I don't bother with such people, they were ashamed of their origins at the first place so what are we supposed to think now...

        B2MR,

        I got it now, but I am not talking about you if ever that's what you're wondering, I don't know you so be at peace, I even thought you were a girl when I joined then realised that no..., my bad...

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
          I don't think there has never been a trend ... if you ask me. Either it is called LOVE ... or simply a matter of "convenience", I'd say.
          Ok, interesting to hear your opinion. Thanks.



          Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
          I don't have the same definition of manhood as yours ... I don't seem to expect the same things from men as you either ... it's more a matter of who we are deep down and where we want to go than what nationality or colour we are.
          No doubt we would all have differences in our definitions. Pls note that I'm not saying women shouldn't work...just that in Australia there is a lot of pressure now to have it all, to do it all - and it comes at a cost particularly for those who don't really want that sort of life.


          Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
          Correct me if I'm wrong ... but you are looking for a good man, a man who will look after you "properly" (... and you seem to think that you will find that person among Muslims), I think you are overestimating Muslims (or the people who say they are Muslim) and underestimating "your people".
          Yes I was looking for a good man, of course. Nobody wants a bad man. I am not overestimating Muslims because I know that not all Muslims are the same, not all are practicing and if they are they vary in their practice....BUT...I am a Muslim female so I'm not about to marry a non-muslim. I am totally generalising about ''my people'' as you put it (and I assume you mean westerners?). Of course I am. I am generalising based on my experience. So if I'm underestimating them, it's only in the same way that any person does when they generalise. There will always be someone to stand up and say "hey - I'm not like that!!!"

          Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
          If I like Algerians, it's because of (or thanks to) what they are (defects included), because they are "my" people ... because in spite of everything, we share the same values (not only religion) ... we share the same history (it's much stronger for Algerians, I'd say without meaning to be chauvinistic) ...
          I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here....

          Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
          If western women turn to Islam, it's because it's the only place (at the moment) where you can get values (l'Occident a perdu ses valeurs, s'est vidé de son essence) ... don't be misled, Western men turn to Islam too. But they are less visible than women.
          The only place where a western woman can get values?? Aren't you overestimating Muslims now? I'd like to see the evidence of those western men turning to Islam in Australia btw...despite your claims they are just quiet. Does quiet mean they aren't looking for wives? Maybe they are looking but looking only for born Muslims? Maybe that's why I haven't come across them?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
            And I'll drink mint tea for two.
            And I'll sit there with my white english style tea.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Jazaireya4ever View Post

              I think it has to do with men all over the world, I think now a man would have to really prove himself or I'd have to really see him as a man and not "something that appears to be a man" LOL. As far as I know, it has to do with something that I'd call the metrogayish trend that is spreading its cancer all over the world.
              But hamdullah, there is still a whole load of normal individuals who are worth it.
              Yes you're right it is spreading over the world, probably with a westernised version of values (just my opinion)...and yes there are still people who are well worth it.

              Originally posted by Jazaireya4ever View Post
              And it's good for you but I personally don't fancy Western born boys, or those who are Westernised and are inked into it (acting - thinking...) ya3ni those who act more White than the Whites themselves.
              I hope I don't dig a big hole for myself in this thread, but here goes. The man I will be marrying soon is not western born, nor particularly western (no I'm not sure what you meant by ''good for you'')...he is a practicing Muslim and that is the culture we are aiming for. Mind you, you can never divorce yourself from your culture and you shouldn't have to. But so long as you try to minimise those aspects of culture which conflict with Islam and maximise those which are good for your religion then that has to be the most positive thing. At least that is how I see it.


              Originally posted by Jazaireya4ever View Post
              And this generation who went abroad and had their fun with Western women simply hated themselves and their own people
              Really? Is it really that bad? Don't you know of any couples that have been good couples and good people...Algerian and westerner? Are you suggesting that an Algerian man or woman who marries a westerner hates themselves or will hate themself and other Algerians?

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              • #97
                Salma,

                Culture is something that one will keep within him/herself, agreed.
                Anything clashing with Islam goes in the categories of innovations, you know what follows up...
                I said good for you as in good for you, be happy.
                And yep, I am positive, anyone (Algerian or not) marrying a Westerner is a self-hater, I've seen a lot of these...
                And why are you saying "I hope I am not digging a hole for myself here"? You're welcome here like any other respectful person.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Jazaireya4ever
                  I said good for you as in good for you, be happy.
                  Thank you

                  Originally posted by Jazaireya4ever
                  And yep, I am positive, anyone (Algerian or not) marrying a Westerner is a self-hater, I've seen a lot of these...
                  I find it so hard to imagine...I find it hard to imagine that the man I'm going to marry could be considered a self-hater for marrying me....

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                  • #99
                    Hello Salma,

                    I didn't want to reply ... I was a kind of stunned ... (some of your reflexions came as a shock too)

                    Originally posted by salma View Post
                    just that in Australia there is a lot of pressure now to have it all, to do it all - and it comes at a cost particularly for those who don't really want that sort of life.
                    ... in Australia as everywhere else in the world ... I wouldn't call it pressure, I would call it (the price for) freedom ... it's up to the women to voice what they really want ... and nothing in the world would convince me to go backwards.
                    Go backwards to THAT life. My mother fought so that I could be "free", I won't tie up "my daughters" to that very life that my Mom was subjected to. Never again. It's our duty not to be "pressurized" (by any one).
                    (I have much to say about this topic but I won't go further)

                    Originally posted by salma View Post
                    Yes I was looking for a good man, of course. Nobody wants a bad man. I am not overestimating Muslims because I know that not all Muslims are the same, not all are practicing and if they are they vary in their practice....BUT...I am a Muslim female so I'm not about to marry a non-muslim. I am totally generalising about ''my people'' as you put it (and I assume you mean westerners?). Of course I am. I am generalising based on my experience. So if I'm underestimating them, it's only in the same way that any person does when they generalise. There will always be someone to stand up and say "hey - I'm not like that!!!"
                    A simple question: when did you revert to Islam and how did it happen ? (if you judge it too personal, don't answer, I won't feel upset or anything)



                    Originally posted by salma View Post
                    The only place where a western woman can get values?? Aren't you overestimating Muslims now? I'd like to see the evidence of those western men turning to Islam in Australia btw...despite your claims they are just quiet. Does quiet mean they aren't looking for wives? Maybe they are looking but looking only for born Muslims? Maybe that's why I haven't come across them?
                    Let me try to explain ... to us/me, Islam is more than religion, it's
                    - background
                    - oumma
                    - family ties
                    - traditions
                    etc etc I cannot think of some other inherent concepts (and "values") right now ... it has more to do with emotions, "memories, "experiences" rather than objective analysis or learning by rote...that is the line between "the new religion" (the one you are living by, I presume) and the religion I was brought up into .. I hope it's not too confusing, I'm exchanging views here with you about religion and the way I consider it, more than answering to your message.
                    The "new" religion is frightening .... in my opinion (it's important to underline it), it's more a tool to assert oneself, a means to emphasise the difference with the Other, the Stranger, ... I do not subscribe to this new wave.
                    Getting back to your message, I didn't know you were Australian, I was talking about Europeans guys ... who are less put into the light by the media ... (another ball game)

                    Well, Muslim-born guys must be very proud to walk arm in arm with a revert lady ... (a bit sarcastic I know I can't help it BUT it's not aimed to you, ladies)

                    PS: I'm a tea lover ... whatever the colour.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
                      ... in Australia as everywhere else in the world ... I wouldn't call it pressure, I would call it (the price for) freedom ... it's up to the women to voice what they really want ... and nothing in the world would convince me to go backwards.
                      Well that's good for you Tipaza, but I find it a pressure to be frank with you and I don't want a pressured life. Like I said, I'm not suggesting that women can't or shouldn't work. I'm saying that I don't want to have to do it all. It felt like a really high price to me.


                      Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
                      A simple question: when did you revert to Islam and how did it happen ? (if you judge it too personal, don't answer, I won't feel upset or anything)
                      It's not that it would be too personal...but I don't feel like answering just so that you can lay out your judgement of me for all to read.




                      Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
                      Let me try to explain ... to us/me, Islam is more than religion, it's
                      - background
                      - oumma
                      - family ties
                      - traditions
                      What are you getting at here? Wow - I'm really worried now because my Islam will never be able to compare to yours...I mean, yours in steeped in history and traditions that I in my little sterile Western world won't ever be able to compete with!!! (yes, sarcasm). You don't expect me to fall for that do you?

                      In my point of view being born Muslim does mean a whole lot more than just religion, depending on where you were born. Yes, Muslims are a hugely varied bunch in their looks, their culture, the degree to which they practice Islam (even within the one culture). But Islam itself is NOT all those things. Islam IS religion and the way of life and culture was to a great degree laid out.

                      Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
                      The "new" religion is frightening .... in my opinion (it's important to underline it), it's more a tool to assert oneself, a means to emphasise the difference with the Other, the Stranger, ... I do not subscribe to this new wave.
                      I'm unsure of what you mean here. When you say ''new'' religion, do you mean the practice of Islam?

                      Originally posted by Tipaza View Post
                      Well, Muslim-born guys must be very proud to walk arm in arm with a revert lady ... (a bit sarcastic I know I can't help it BUT it's not aimed to you, ladies)
                      Nice.

                      It's up to you whether you bother to reply to this. I'm pretty much done with you and your attitude.

                      Comment


                      • I feel for you salma.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BACK2MYROOTS View Post
                          I feel for you salma.
                          Thank you, but it's ok. It's really a simple case of having to stay away from non-Muslims who don't like Muslims, non-Muslims who don't like me becoming a Muslim, Muslims who don't like reverts, Muslims who don't like westerners, Algerians who don't like westerners, Algerians who don't like reverts, Algierians who don't like non-Algerians who marry Algerians, Algerians with a bad attitude towards other Algerians, Algerians who believe that they are better than the rest of us because they are Algerians and/or born Muslim, Muslims who believe that nationality and culture are the most important things, people who don't like Algerians, people who think Algerians can't be trusted and serious Islamophobes (that probably goes without saying)...

                          see, simple

                          I'll just do that and ''she'll be right mate!"

                          I wonder if that is what Tipaza meant by the new religion being a way to emphasise the difference with the ''other, the stranger". If new religion means practicing Islam, then I would say that I am being forced into being a stranger, because those around me wish to continually emphasise the differences.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by salma View Post
                            Thank you, but it's ok. It's really a simple case of having to stay away from non-Muslims who don't like Muslims, non-Muslims who don't like me becoming a Muslim, Muslims who don't like reverts, Muslims who don't like westerners, Algerians who don't like westerners, Algerians who don't like reverts, Algierians who don't like non-Algerians who marry Algerians, Algerians with a bad attitude towards other Algerians, Algerians who believe that they are better than the rest of us because they are Algerians and/or born Muslim, Muslims who believe that nationality and culture are the most important things, people who don't like Algerians, people who think Algerians can't be trusted and serious Islamophobes (that probably goes without saying)...
                            You don't need to stay away from these people, you just need to live your life the way you should, and in that, they will see you are a good person, with good intentions, and that you and your (soon to be?) husband, were made for each other. Its like when someone doesn't smile at you, but you smile anyway, and they eventually end up smiling. (I know this is very simplistic, but it is also true). Tipaza has never seen you, never met you, and is going on your name on a website attached to a few comments, but I'm sure if you were face to face, there wouldn't be this hostility, and as a non-Muslim, I know Islam is like Christianity (or vice versa, it doesnt matter) in that it has a lot to do with kindness - both the "old' and 'new' versions i'm sure.

                            Comment


                            • Hi Felicity

                              Originally posted by Felicity View Post
                              You don't need to stay away from these people, you just need to live your life
                              I was really only partially serious when I wrote that - I was trying to make a point about how obnoxious people can be (by being slightly obnoxious).

                              Originally posted by Felicity View Post
                              Its like when someone doesn't smile at you, but you smile anyway, and they eventually end up smiling. (I know this is very simplistic, but it is also true).
                              It is simplistic and it does work when I"m out and about, in particular with children...some adults too. Ever get just too darn sick of putting up with peoples rubbish though Felicity?

                              Originally posted by Felicity View Post
                              Tipaza has never seen you, never met you
                              Very true.


                              Originally posted by Felicity View Post
                              I'm sure if you were face to face, there wouldn't be this hostility
                              It's nice to think that that might be true.

                              I seem to hear from so many sources that Algerian men often have big issues: muslims, non-muslims...even now from Tipaza?? It doesn't seem to be the case in my experience. On the whole people are just people. Then again, my experience is small re: Algerian men I guess. Maybe my fiancé is on his best behaviour because he doesn't want to ruin his chances of being seen on the arm of a revert? Not a good basis for marriage.

                              Comment


                              • I've heard of many Algerian men who don't want to marry a non-Algerian woman/westerner/revert. I guess I just assumed that it didn't imply a lack of respect for those who weren't Algerian. Rather that they feel that their marriage would be better, and stronger if they came from the same country, same culture maybe (though even each country is never just one culture is it?).

                                That's totally valid...but what if they don't feel that they need that ''culture match'' for a strong marriage. Is that not also valid?

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